Scarlett 2i2 and Shure SM57 very low volume on acoustic on recommended setting.

[drtechno]

I do not understand "lot of series resistance"? I am known here to NOT be the biggest F'rite fanboy but they DO make excellent preamps and since THE basic principle of a really low noise amp is NOT to put resistors in series with the signal, they would not do that!

I wish that I can get a copy of the schematics of the front end to show you.
on these types of preamps, there is usually like a 4.7 ohm resistor bypassed with a 1.5uH inductor. The purpose of it is to prevent oscillations at low input impedances. When I measured between the phantom blocking cap and one side of the differential input it was 620 ohms instead of the expected <1 ohm.
I got rid of that 2i2 two years ago, maybe I should pick up the new version and see if they fixed that. I don't need it, but it might be fun to look under the hood of the new version and see what could be better with them (because I operated a newer version a fellow musician had and it seemed to behave but I was using a condensor mic instead of a low z dynamic at the time, but the gain didn't have a good contour to the range of the knob (the gain became too much too soon and it took some time fidgeting to find the nice place in between) )

 

[arcaxis]

an sm57 is not that low z as most people think. unless you bypassed the step up transformer inside.

comparing them with others they just seem not as good. The scralette series and the fast track preamps are the products focusrite makes that I really don't like. To me it seems like the 2i2 gain staging isn't correct as the preamps seem to clip the ADC way too soon.

The SM57 is about middle of the road for impedance compared to other dynamics I have. Impedance of the SM57 doesn't make it any better or worse than other dynamic mics. Both the Senn e935 and Miktek PM9 are exceptionally good mics that have impedances similar to the SM57, but sound significantly better on vocals going into the same preamp.

 

[drtechno]

The SM57 is about middle of the road for impedance compared to other dynamics I have. Impedance of the SM57 doesn't make it any better or worse than other dynamic mics. Both the Senn e935 and Miktek PM9 are exceptionally good mics that have impedances similar to the SM57, but sound significantly better on vocals going into the same preamp.

Well the Senn e935 is a better mic than the Shure's offerings IMHO. The e935 has a sound similar to the Neumann KK104 and has good side rejection properties too.

The thing that I can think that made shure mics get popular is because they were cheap and readily available. I really don't find them a step above the $20 cheap dynamics out there. They might be a little bit more durable because of the metal body compare to a $20 mic but that is about it.

 

[Chuku]

My friend recommended me to buy Preamp. Do you think this will solve my problem.. He says an microphone signals are weak enough to be transmitted so preamp should solve the problem.

 

[ecc83]

I wish that I can get a copy of the schematics of the front end to show you.
on these types of preamps, there is usually like a 4.7 ohm resistor bypassed with a 1.5uH inductor. The purpose of it is to prevent oscillations at low input impedances. When I measured between the phantom blocking cap and one side of the differential input it was 620 ohms instead of the expected <1 ohm.
I got rid of that 2i2 two years ago, maybe I should pick up the new version and see if they fixed that. I don't need it, but it might be fun to look under the hood of the new version and see what could be better with them (because I operated a newer version a fellow musician had and it seemed to behave but I was using a condensor mic instead of a low z dynamic at the time, but the gain didn't have a good contour to the range of the knob (the gain became too much too soon and it took some time fidgeting to find the nice place in between) )

4r7 will generate 145dBu of noise, so no worries there! But since it is shunted by 0.2 Ohms even at 20kHz not even that. That 620R seems to be the common mode (impedance or DC resistance?) from one leg to ground? It is the differential impedance (and its DC component) that matters here.

I must have seen scores of pre amp schematics in the last 50yrs or so and yes, some have an LR network at the front end, often a small toroid but this is an RF stopper, I have never read of INPUT inductance need for stability (op amps often have an impedance at their output for this purpose).

The poor gain/rotation law is well known for simple pre amps and there really is no easy fix. The best solution is of course a 12 way switch with precision resistances and 10dB "trim" control but that COSTS!

One fairly good solution is a 10dB pad on the AI . My venerable Fast Track Pro had one but then that had barely enough gain to start with!

Dave.

 

[Tadpui]

My friend recommended me to buy Preamp. Do you think this will solve my problem.. He says an microphone signals are weak enough to be transmitted so preamp should solve the problem.

OK Chuku, the fellows here got carried away and distracted from your question. Yes, you will need a preamp if you're using a microphone. But if you're trying to record on a computer, you will need an audio interface. That is non-negotiable. Most modern audio interfaces have preamps included in them. So start shopping for an audio interface, and not a stand-alone preamp if you're trying to record onto a computer.

 

[Chuku]

OK Chuku, the fellows here got carried away and distracted from your question. Yes, you will need a preamp if you're using a microphone. But if you're trying to record on a computer, you will need an audio interface. That is non-negotiable. Most modern audio interfaces have preamps included in them. So start shopping for an audio interface, and not a stand-alone preamp if you're trying to record onto a computer.

I think you have skipped my first post.
I have got an Audio interface Scarlett 2i2.. the problem is that i get very thin signal from SM57 even if i boost the gain upto 100%. My main question was if i had any problems.. and my query took me if i should get a separate preamp.. Because i am unable to solve my problem and all other members got carried away to different topics in my post which i don't even understand because of the term they use.. LOL

Thanks any way..

 

[Bobbsy]

My friend recommended me to buy Preamp. Do you think this will solve my problem.. He says an microphone signals are weak enough to be transmitted so preamp should solve the problem.

Frankly to get a pre amp that will be a noticeable improvement on the 2i2, you'd spend a fair bit of cash. If it was me, I'd put the money into a small diaphragm condenser mic--pretty much all of them have a higher output than the SM57 and will also give you a brighter, more detailed sound.

Can you tell I'm not a fan of SM57s on acoustic guitar?

 

[ecc83]

+1 to Bob's suggestion of a Small D capacitor mic.

My own AKG Perception 150s are some 18dB (X8) more sensitive than a 57 plus a flatter, more extended response in both upper and lower frequencies. Useful to get an SDC with a pad switch since it then can be used (with spit gag!) as a close up vocals mic.

And yes, sorry for the technical diversion (but "ee" started it!)

All that said, the 57 CAN be used on acoustic guitar. My 8i6, KA6 and A&H mixer all give good results, I see no reason why a 2i2 should not as well. Remember EVEN IF the signals are WAY down at -30dBFS (24 bits) that is not to low and can be boosted digitally with impunity.

Dave.

 

[Chuku]

Frankly to get a pre amp that will be a noticeable improvement on the 2i2, you'd spend a fair bit of cash. If it was me, I'd put the money into a small diaphragm condenser mic--pretty much all of them have a higher output than the SM57 and will also give you a brighter, more detailed sound.

Can you tell I'm not a fan of SM57s on acoustic guitar?

I have ordered a Condenser mic AT 2020 which i hope will solve my problem but i am afraid if it would pickup unwanted noise from background as my room is not treated.. But i always wanted to try SM57 because of its popularity and i've found many engineers/ Producers talking about it on different sites and forums and how well it has served from couple of decades.
Well, one of my favorite Artist "Justin Vernon" - BON IVER have recorded his whole album (acoustic, Vocals)" For Emma, Forever ago " with single SM57 and i know how his songs sound so just wanted to try some of mine too. But Bad luck, something is missing or going wrong.. Will surely figure out in future

Thanks..

 

[JDOD]

Chuku, a condenser might well help you record the sort of things you want (we'll look forward to hearing your results).

But, a 57 should still work with the 2i2 which is still a bit of a mystery.

 

[ecc83]

Chuku, a condenser might well help you record the sort of things you want (we'll look forward to hearing your results).

But, a 57 should still work with the 2i2 which is still a bit of a mystery.

Indeed and the cap mic should throw some light on the matter! And OP, at the risk of seeming a cynical old bastard. You know those Marshall stacks you see at concerts? Ain't necessarily so!

Dave.

 

[JDOD]

Indeed and the cap mic should throw some light on the matter! And OP, at the risk of seeming a cynical old bastard. You know those Marshall stacks you see at concerts? Ain't necessarily so!

Dave.

Dave & Chuku,

Just thinking about this logically - Focusrite make some of the most popular interfaces and the SM57 is the most popular mic in history - if the two of them didn't work together the 2i2 would be the stupidest AI design ever. But they should work together 'cos I have no problem with this exact set up.

EDIT: Just trying to be helpful so I've just recorded a short clip of me playing an acoustic into a 57 which was located about 8 inches (20cm) of the fretboard around the 12th to 15th fret.

This was coming into Reaper at about -12dB and I increased that by 6dB in reaper so it would come across louder when I rendered it.View attachment untitled.mp3

 

[Chuku]

Dave & Chuku,

Just thinking about this logically - Focusrite make some of the most popular interfaces and the SM57 is the most popular mic in history - if the two of them didn't work together the 2i2 would be the stupidest AI design ever. But they should work together 'cos I have no problem with this exact set up.

Hey JDod,
If you have same setup, can you share me your settings how you've been using these two to capture acoustic/ Vocals? Just in a picture that i can see the level of gain on AI, mic distance, Sound wave in DAW and raw sound from it ?

Thanks..

Chuku

 

[JDOD]

Hey JDod,
If you have same setup, can you share me your settings how you've been using these two to capture acoustic/ Vocals? Just in a picture that i can see the level of gain on AI, mic distance, Sound wave in DAW and raw sound from it ?

Thanks..

Chuku

Ah, I was doing just that when you wrote your reply! This was about 90% gain on the front of my 2i2 and my "halos" were nice and green when I picked. I thought I would go with finger picking as it would be quieter than if I was banging hard open chords. See my above post - I edited to add the file on but a client called while I was writing it so I chatted to him for 10 minutes before finishing the post.

EDIT: LOL - I've just listened back to it, didn't realise that I had my speakers on and you can hear my metronome in the background!
You'll get even better results with the condenser.

 

[arcaxis]

Chuku, as with JDOD's and the short clip I had posted, neither I think would be considered 'thin' as you had described your recordings. Could you post a short clip fo something you had done so maybe we can get an idea of what your getting?

 

[ecc83]

Chuku, as with JDOD's and the short clip I had posted, neither I think would be considered 'thin' as you had described your recordings. Could you post a short clip fo something you had done so maybe we can get an idea of what your getting?

He said he could not post MP3s and I queried that but have not had a response so far.

Dave.

 

[JDOD]

He'll work it out - he's only just joined. It is a bit of a pain in the arse at first.

 

[ashcat_lt]

I'm afraid the mic is broken. I'm hoping it's not the preamp in the interface that's broken. Wouldn't it be nice if it was just the cable?

You wouldn't happen to have an XLR>1/4" cable around?

If it's got a female XLR, plug it into the mic and put the 1/4" in the interface input. The level will be low (Instrument button will help), but does it sound more like you expect?

If its got a male XLR, and the 1/4" is TS ("mono") then you could at least test the XLR input to the pre by plugging your guitar in. You shouldn't have any problem with level here as long as the battery in the guitar is good and it's V knob is turned up. This won't tell you whether it's the cable or mic, but could rule out the pre.

You got a soldering iron? Maybe a cheap multimeter?

 

[Chuku]

Chuku, as with JDOD's and the short clip I had posted, neither I think would be considered 'thin' as you had described your recordings. Could you post a short clip fo something you had done so maybe we can get an idea of what your getting?

Arcasix, JDod

Here is a short demo sound clip after i converted WAV format to MP3 and able to attache this time ( May be because of file size).
Mic was placed pointing on 16 - 18 fret and about 8 inches far. Gain on AI 100%. Finger plucked raw sound..

It doesn't sound great but from your experience and knowledge, what do you think i can do for better results?

Thanks..