Scarlett 2i2 and Shure SM57 very low volume on acoustic on recommended setting.

[Bobbsy]

Well, I suppose I could argue that it would be stereo if your target audience was somebody with a very wide head who liked to sit on the floor about a foot in front of the guitarist...

...Or I could argue that I hope that tooth extraction is early tomorrow to improve your mood!

...Or I could even argue that "solid" has more to do with etymology (stereos is Greek for solid) but that the modern definition from the Cambridge Dictionary is: (noun)

-a way of recording or playing sound so that it is separated into two signals and produces more natural sound:
The concert will be broadcast in stereo.
​
-a piece of electrical equipment for playing music, listening to the radio, etc. that sounds very natural because the sounds come out of two speakers (= parts for playing sound)

But of course you're technically correct! However, besides preferring the sound of an acoustic spread across the stereo field (even if not a true reproduction of what a live listener would here (except for my big headed guy on the floor) and I also like to add some stereo-specific effects to my recordings most of the time.

 

[ecc83]

Oh! The tooth is fine today! No, I am just being a pedantic old fart!

But then Bobs, you pointed out the flaw in the technique (unless of course the two sources are panned/mixed down to near mono) The guitar, listened at any realistic distance would appear huge, spread across the sound field and of different sound colours from each side. You have properly corrected me for a rather loose definition of "stereo" but what about "fidelity"? Not just about noise, distortion and 20-20kHz bandwidth!

I have a vinyl disc called "What is Good Recorded Sound" but I lack the means to play it at the moment. However, on the disc, amongst many other demonstrated techniques, the close mic'ed "giant" piano is there.

The classical theory of spatial reproduction shows a large number of microphones and channels feeding through to an equally large number of speakers but then of course it was found that two channels could adequately convey the information. Only in one plane mind! You need four channels to convey height and depth (or maybe just 3 and some clever maths?) . I guess you lived through the industry scandal that was four channel stereo*? Of course like live acoustic instruments in a good hall, very few people these days ever hear "true" stereo? Just a pan potted mashup.

*Still stereo even with four channels. ***k the dictionary!

Dave.

 

[Bobbsy]

It really depends on what you're recording. In a real room, you'd hear the actual guitar centrally but with a variety of echoes and reverberations off the walls. A single close mic without the room tone could actually sound less realistic, especially on headphones which is how most music is listened to these days.

On the other hand, a guitar recorded with two mics, panned hard right and left then with some reverb and a stereo expander added, doesn't sound "natural" but can sound "good"...a bit like you recorded in a church or other live building.

(I think I've mentioned before that in my TV days, the brick and metal stairwell outside the Studio 1 greenroom was an excellent reverb chamber for an acoustic when recording with two mics...)

 

[Chuku]

- Where did you purchase the SM57? Retailer, ebay, or other?
- Are you playing a quiet finger picking style versus a louder pick/strumming style?

I bought it from one of the geniune Music store here in Nepal.. They import and sell all the Genuine products... As far as i know, it is the original one. I had learned the differences between original and fake one before buying though. So i am definite that it is the original one.
I am playing both finger picking and strumming style..

Thanks

 

[Chuku]

OK - what does it sound like when you plug the headphones into the interface? Loud and meaty, or thin and weedy?

when the Gain is below 90% and mic placed about 8-10 inches, it sounds thin and muddy..But once the Gain is upto maximum 100%, the scarlett knob shows green and it sounds just fine.. not so loud as it should be as gain is 100%

 

[Chuku]

Yes, the mic could be fake. A good first test is its mass. A genuine SM57 weighs 284g (10 oz) but then the microphone does have a very low sensitivity.

The 2i2 should have ASIO drivers installed which should avoid the gain controls in Windows but it is worth checking Sounds and Devices and ensuring that the AI is set as default rec/playback device and that levels are set at max* but as I say, the ASIO drivers should sort that.

Note that mic level should be at only -18dBFS average with peaks to about -8. Same goes for DI'ed guitar so if it is much higher turn it down!

*Some USB audio devices, 16bit mixers e.g. use "generic" Windows drivers and in those cases it is usual to have to pull down the onboard gain from 100% to 5% (yes, Five!) or less.

Dave.

As far as i know the mic is not fake.. I researched about weeks just to differentiate the fake and original one.. And also i bought this mic from trusted music store here in my country..

 

[JDOD]

OK, mate. You should be getting more than the gain just starting to go green when its turned up to 100% so there's obviously a problem.
We've to to eliminate what the problems could be 1 at a time.
You've got two more possible problems to eliminate.

1. A knackered mic.
2. Problems with the AISO set up.

1. Can you get your hands on another mic? Or better still go to the shop where you bought your mic and try a different one? I understand that this could be a problem if you live anywhere except Kathmandu.
2. A forum user that has the same DAW as you might be able to walk you through what to click to check this.

Also, I (and many other HR users) recorded using the Reaper DAW. This is free to download and test, so you could also try this and see if you get different results.


राम्रो किस्मत

 

[Chuku]

OK, mate. You should be getting more than the gain just starting to go green when its turned up to 100% so there's obviously a problem.
We've to to eliminate what the problems could be 1 at a time.
You've got two more possible problems to eliminate.

1. A knackered mic.
2. Problems with the AISO set up.

1. Can you get your hands on another mic? Or better still go to the shop where you bought your mic and try a different one? I understand that this could be a problem if you live anywhere except Kathmandu.
2. A forum user that has the same DAW as you might be able to walk you through what to click to check this.

Also, I (and many other HR users) recorded using the Reaper DAW. This is free to download and test, so you could also try this and see if you get different results.


राम्रो किस्मत

Yea, i think i should once try with another mic which i don't have right now but i have ordered AT2020 which should be here within 15 days, ordered from Amazon US and yes i live in Kathmandu...

I would definitely try with Reaper if it helps.. thanks.

 

[JDOD]

Yea, i think i should once try with another mic which i don't have right now but i have ordered AT2020 which should be here within 15 days, ordered from Amazon US and yes i live in Kathmandu...

I would definitely try with Reaper if it helps.. thanks.

Give it a go with Reaper - it's a good easy to use DAW, will take you about 20 minutes to download and install and a lot of people on the forum should be able to help you with any AISO problems.

I'm determined to work out what's going on now because it would really annoy me if my equipment wasn't working correctly and it was probably something really simple!

 

[drtechno]

Well I'll tell you guys its a lost adventure. Because the Scarlett interfaces have 3.1K ohm of actual input impedance (measured) and there is a lot of series resistance in them so any low Z mic is going to have poor gain with them. The input impedance on them only really makes them suitable for condenser mics that are transformer less.

I would recommend going to a better interface.

 

[ecc83]

Well I'll tell you guys its a lost adventure. Because the Scarlett interfaces have 3.1K ohm of actual input impedance (measured) and there is a lot of series resistance in them so any low Z mic is going to have poor gain with them. The input impedance on them only really makes them suitable for condenser mics that are transformer less.

I would recommend going to a better interface.

3k1 is by no means a "high" input impedance for a microphone amplifier. The industry sort of standard is 1k5 but there are plenty of boutique pres that offer Zins of up to 10k with no effect on performance.

I do not understand "lot of series resistance"? I am known here to NOT be the biggest F'rite fanboy but they DO make excellent preamps and since THE basic principle of a really low noise amp is NOT to put resistors in series with the signal, they would not do that!

I do agree that for the very best (speech e.g.) low noise setup a really quiet capacitor mic would be a better bet than the 57 and the 2i2 but my own tests have shown me that modern AI pres (NI KA6) and a dynamic are actually limited by one's situation.

Dave.

 

[JDOD]

Well I'll tell you guys its a lost adventure. Because the Scarlett interfaces have 3.1K ohm of actual input impedance (measured) and there is a lot of series resistance in them so any low Z mic is going to have poor gain with them. The input impedance on them only really makes them suitable for condenser mics that are transformer less.

I would recommend going to a better interface.

I own a 2i2 and an SM57 so I can confirm that this is bollocks.

 

[arcaxis]

Quickie with an SM57 and Tascam US144mkii (2.2kohm input impedance ). Micced about 8" off acoustic midway between soundhole and 12th fret. Chuku had mentioned 'thin' sounding, so wondering how this compares.
Unedited mp3 and waveform as recorded in Reaper.



View attachment sm57 test.mp3

 

[ecc83]

I am struggling to find a "clunk" free quiet bit to test there Mark but I would say you have a noise floor of around -55dBFS? The guitar sounds just fine.

Dave.

 

[arcaxis]

I am struggling to find a "clunk" free quiet bit to test there Mark but I would say you have a noise floor of around -55dBFS? The guitar sounds just fine.

Dave.

Could have had a crap load of 'floor' noise. Windows were open, window fan spinning, etc. Only intended to give the OP a comparison for his/her 'thin' guitar recording with the sound of an SM57 in a similar setup.

The amount of gain available on the Tascam US144mkii is similar to the 2i2 and it was just about all the way up for the SM57, so the 2i2 I wouldn't think would have a problem with that mic.

 

[ecc83]

Could have had a crap load of 'floor' noise. Windows were open, window fan spinning, etc. Only intended to give the OP a comparison for his/her 'thin' guitar recording with the sound of an SM57 in a similar setup.

The amount of gain available on the Tascam US144mkii is similar to the 2i2 and it was just about all the way up for the SM57, so the 2i2 I wouldn't think would have a problem with that mic.

Ooo! Wasn't complaining Mark! You would have to spend a LOT more than $250 (?) to get a tape based system nearly as good. These kids don't know they are born!

If I get a mo tomm' I will fire up my 8i6 but excuse the playing!

Dave.

 

[Chuku]

Quickie with an SM57 and Tascam US144mkii (2.2kohm input impedance ). Micced about 8" off acoustic midway between soundhole and 12th fret. Chuku had mentioned 'thin' sounding, so wondering how this compares.
Unedited mp3 and waveform as recorded in Reaper.

View attachment 97602

View attachment 97603

Just by looking at the sound wave, i can say it is much better than mine. The Mp3 sounds fairly loud than mine with gain 100%.
Just compare with my following sound wave at 90% and 100%. I am unable to attach Mp3 file.

 

[ecc83]

Attached is an idiot on guitar. SM57 about 10" from acoustic* in a very quiet suburban living room around 06:30 today.
In the original recording (24bits 44.1kHz) the guitar averaged only about -30dBFS and so the MP3 has been normalized to give peaks of around -10dBFS. The noise floor is still a very acceptable (?) -60dBFS.

Next tests were done with the 8i6 and a 57 and an AKG P150.

Gain set to 3 o'clock (8 on the control) and the noise including room for the 57 was -83dBFS direct readout on Sam 8SE meters. A finger snap at ~1" gave -30dBFS.

P150 raised the noise+ room to -70dBFS and a F/S gave -22dBFS. All very rough and ready but I conclude that the 8i6 preamps are easily quiet enough acoustic guitar and a 57, it being very hard to move about the room without the slightest movement causing the meters to blip up to -50dB or more. I doubt the 2i2 pres are inferior? Maybe a couple of dBs noisier?

Oh! Chucku, why can't you post MP3? Can you GENERATE MP3s? If so I can walk you through the posting process.

Dave.

 

[ecc83]

*Hah! Meant to say, the guitar is a small Turner acoustic (C £500) and although son says it is a lovely guitar to play it is not that loud.

Dave.

 

[drtechno]

I own a 2i2 and an SM57 so I can confirm that this is bollocks.

an sm57 is not that low z as most people think. unless you bypassed the step up transformer inside.

comparing them with others they just seem not as good. The scralette series and the fast track preamps are the products focusrite makes that I really don't like. To me it seems like the 2i2 gain staging isn't correct as the preamps seem to clip the ADC way too soon.