Recording singing guitarist

davecg321

New member
Do the microphones have to be similar distances from the performer to make sure there aren't any phase issues?

If not then can we compensate for any phase issues by moving the WAV back a few notches so both sync up better?

The reason being is that I want a fairly close up front vocal and more of a roomy guitar sound

Cheers
 
Record them separately. If you want the sound of somebody playing and singing at the same time, record them together as one performance with one or a pair of mics. If that doesn't get you what you want, record them separately and mic each one using whatever technique gets you what you want.
 
I want to record the performance as a whole but want to use different mic distances.

Is it common practice to move one of the recorded wavs back/forward so that there is less phase issues? Or doesn't it really matter ?
 
If we are talking in the studio and not a live gig, use figure 8 pattern microphones as they give the best off axis rejection. You can check the phase before you start and flip the phase on one channel if the mics end up out of phase.

Alan.
 
Yep, figure-8 mics. They pick up strongly at 0° and 180° but reject strongly at 90°. Put one aimed up at the singer's mouth with the null toward the guitar, the other aimed down at the guitar with the null aimed at the singer's mouth. Since the mics pick up equally front and back an acoustically dead environment is preferable, especially in the direction of the rear lobes of the mics' pickup pattern. If you manage to get sufficient isolation with pattern and placement you can essentially disregard phase as an issue.
 
Do the microphones have to be similar distances from the performer to make sure there aren't any phase issues?

If not then can we compensate for any phase issues by moving the WAV back a few notches so both sync up better?

The reason being is that I want a fairly close up front vocal and more of a roomy guitar sound

Cheers
All good points above.. but to zero in on this- The gotcha' is -with one on the guitar one on the voice (as opposed to a stereo pair) that no mater where you place them the bleed will be out of phase.. in either and both mics.
'Equal distance doesn't -again other than a coherent stereo pair,'fix that either - Think about the sources, and their paths to the mics.. No matter where you put them there will be unequal arrival time.
That doesn't mean the result can't work or sound ok. There is 'mixes or portions of out of phase' that are complimentary'. That is not uncommon at all.
I guess what you might get is 'a close vocal track, and a far' guitar image, but it'd have 'far vocal too?
 
The reason being is that I want a fairly close up front vocal and more of a roomy guitar sound

If you want a roomy guitar sound then you need a room that is fairly live and sounds good, and then the voice will be in that mic too unless you can put an isolation box around his head. But some vocal bleed in the guitar mic, whether it's coming from the room reflections or the direct path, isn't necessarily a deal breaker as far as good sound.
 
I want to record the performance as a whole but want to use different mic distances.
You can't have both! You can compromise one or the other or both sources to get what you think you want, or you can record each separately under their own ideal circumstances and get what you really want rather than what you think you want.
 
You can kind of fake the figure of 8 with two (or 3) cardioids. Assuming an SDC or small dynamic for the guitar, start with the usual "foot away from the 12th fret) location...but arrange the mic well above the strings looking down but aimed at the middle of the strings/neck.

Do the opposite with the vocal mic and put it lower than the mouth but looking up from whatever distance you want.

Working this way gets both mics into at least the beginning of the nulls when you're recording.

However, the best bet is still to use the above to record a scratch track then re-record the voice and the guitar separately but with the scratch track a a guide.
 
Mic distances change the sound by altering the wanted to unwanted ratio. If you use two mics at the same distance, (like on the top and bottom of a snare drum, for example) they will cancel out. Once you start to have greater distances than an inch or so, then two mics on the voice and guitar, for example will both pick up a bit of each other, and sometimes, especially when both are more distant, you start to get odd colouration as the two signals beat together, called comb filtering. However, if the singer has both mics at a normal distance - maybe up to 4 or 5 inches, then it's rarely an issue. Try it and see. If you find it slightly hollow and odd sounding, then move the mics a bit closer.
 
Look at it this way - what is actually happening in the opposite direction - because fig 8 will allow it to be heard. Sometimes this can be good, maybe the audience, or the actual sound of the space, like in a church maybe, but plain and simple cardioid could be best. We'd need to be in the room, listening to make the decision.

NOTE sorry - this was meant to be a response to the figure of 8 question - it popped up in my browser and I didn't spot it was an older one!
 
Ok cool I'll try and keep them relatively the same distances or thereabouts.

One question about figure 8. If I'm pointing the vocal mic null at the guitar (90 degrees) isn't the rear of said figure 8 microphone picking up the sound from the rear of the mic too? Effectively picking up lots of guitar sound? Not sure how this would eliminate bleed....?

Or does this technique call for a microphone with figure 8 capabilities/specs, and not actually utilise the actual setting...?
 
If the vocal mic is below the mouth and pointed up you can arrange for the guitar to be about 90° off axis, right in the null. The rear lobe will be aimed at the floor in front of the performer.

The guitar mic is placed a bit high and aimed down, so the singer's mouth is 90° off axis, in the null. The rear lobe of the guitar mic points to the ceiling in front of the performer.

It's a bit like a Blumlein pair except the mics aren't necessarily coincident, and they're oriented up/down rather than left/right.
 
If the vocal mic is below the mouth and pointed up you can arrange for the guitar to be about 90° off axis, right in the null. The rear lobe will be aimed at the floor in front of the performer.

The guitar mic is placed a bit high and aimed down, so the singer's mouth is 90° off axis, in the null. The rear lobe of the guitar mic points to the ceiling in front of the performer.

It's a bit like a Blumlein pair except the mics aren't necessarily coincident, and they're oriented up/down rather than left/right.

Do I actually engage the Figure of 8 setting on the mic though?

Dave
 
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