Recording right on the click

This is how it's supposed to be, or else it would sound like a machine. That's why a real metal drummer sounds different than drum software running double bass. Even if it's at the exact same speed. The human feel isn't perfect. The machine is perfect. The imperfect we can feel better.
 
mesaboogie5050 said:
This is how it's supposed to be, or else it would sound like a machine. That's why a real metal drummer sounds different than drum software running double bass. Even if it's at the exact same speed. The human feel isn't perfect. The machine is perfect. The imperfect we can feel better.
Click to expand...

I gotta say, the hardest thing to do with drums via MIDI is to program fills... not because you don't know when to place what hits, but because when you put everything on the beat, which works fine in the majority of the song, it sounds exactly like a machine and not quite right.

I still haven't worked out exactly what makes it right... it's a work in progress.
 
I could not remember the words for fekkin' AGES!!!!
"Right on the beat" is "quantized"
Putting in a bit of swing can be automated! Called "humanizing".

Reaper can do both. (so am told!)
Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
I could not remember the words for fekkin' AGES!!!!
"Right on the beat" is "quantized"
Putting in a bit of swing can be automated! Called "humanizing".

Reaper can do both. (so am told!)
Dave.
Click to expand...

Humanizing is just moving hits around randomly by small amounts. I don't use it - doesn't make it seem human, just messy. Swing is different.
 
Then too context is everything. There was this quote somewhere- don't recall, -some programer, shifting some of the beats away from the grid a bit and it was something along the lines of 'What are you doing? -- If I wanted mistakes I'd used a drummer'
 
I prefer things done extremely well and played to a click, I've met drummer who CAN play to a click and they are usually incredible drummers, the best in fact, they know when to be slightly behind of ahead of the beat.
 
Btyre2013 said:
I prefer things done extremely well and played to a click, I've met drummer who CAN play to a click and they are usually incredible drummers, the best in fact, they know when to be slightly behind of ahead of the beat.
Click to expand...

We have a winner! No drum program, no matter how advanced can know when to push and when to lay back. That is real "humanizing".
 
Btyre2013 said:
I prefer things done extremely well and played to a click, I've met drummer who CAN play to a click and they are usually incredible drummers, the best in fact, they know when to be slightly behind of ahead of the beat.
Click to expand...

I have to agree.

When I see a lot of talk about human=sloppy, off tempo playing....I just don't buy it.
There are drummers who are VERY tight in their playing....you could set your watch by them, and I generally prefer the drumming to be very tight, and then let the other instruments do the "human" thing by playing OFF the tight drums.
That way....IMO....you still can have that mild push/pull thing going on, yet the song sounds absolutely tight because the drums never fail.

I'm not saying you need to set EVERY drum hit ON the click....but it has to be TIGHT to the click.
 
I read some interesting advice years ago about creating click tracks. It said to subdue the main beats rather than emphasizing them. For example, instead of having a side-stick or metronome ticking in their unsubtle way, use a steady conga pattern that implies where the main beats are. The pattern should be denser than a simple 1-2-3-4 and it should also make it obvious where 1 and 3 are without actually sounding hard or loud at those instances. The idea is that the recording musician (especially a drummer) appreciates the space to provide their own accenting. Plus, during those moments when you deliberately push the beat, the temptation to overdo it is removed because you don't feel like you need to fight against a loud TICK-TICK-TICK sound.

I have been contemplating building a LED display that is synchronized to MIDI clock and simulates the two-dimensional movement of conductors baton; or perhaps a simpler one-dimensional display that could fit between a pair of rack-toms or lay on top of a synth. Why? Because I have encountered problems when drummers can't hear the click in their cans for a few seconds after they hit a crash cymbal. However, if we turn the click up louder it ends up spilling into the overhead mics, even with seriously chunky enclosed cans.

I know such displays have come and gone before. Has anybody used them and found them to be helpful? I don't want to spend a week knocking one together if they are a complete waste of atoms.

Thanks
____________________________________________
WARNING Do not operate the Epoptic Circuits BTH1 in a naked flame or next to a sulfuric acid throwing machine. See it on YouTube
 
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Greg_L said:
Any "musician" that complains about a click, or can't play to a click, is a hack fraud joke and should be beaten to death.
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+1

Playing ahead of or behind the beat will depend on the type of groove you are playing. Ahead is aggressive, and behind is lazy feeling.

A groove doesn't have anything to do with the click, it comes from the kick and snare being a little ahead or behind the hat/ride in the beat. And also the bass/guitar/piano being ahead or behind the drums.

Depending on which groove, the snare could be behind and the kick could be ahead, vice versa, or both ahead, both behind, ahead on the 1 and behind on the 3, etc...

If you can't groove to a click, it's a complete accident when you groove without one.
 
Mmmmqac said:
Why? Because I have encountered problems when drummers can't hear the click in their cans for a few seconds after they hit a crash cymbal. However, if we turn the click up louder it ends up spilling into the overhead mics, even with seriously chunky enclosed cans.
Click to expand...
If you are having this problem, you are probably feeding the drummer his drums back into his headphones. Instead, just give him a little kick and a little overheads. That way there is no way to obscure the click. It also keeps the overall volume down in the headphones and makes everything easier to hear.

That was one of the main advantages to drumming with headphones or IEM's, you can turn the volume way down so you don't have to deal with ringing ears for a day and a half after shows.
 
Farview said:
If you are having this problem, you are probably feeding the drummer his drums back into his headphones. Instead, just give him a little kick and a little overheads. That way there is no way to obscure the click. It also keeps the overall volume down in the headphones and makes everything easier to hear.

That was one of the main advantages to drumming with headphones or IEM's, you can turn the volume way down so you don't have to deal with ringing ears for a day and a half after shows.
Click to expand...
I've also heard it said it would be natural for a drummer to not hear the click if he's playing right on it?
The effect of masking presumably..
 
mixsit said:
I've also heard it said it would be natural for a drummer to not hear the click if he's playing right on it?
The effect of masking presumably..
Click to expand...

That happens to me all the time. I get locked in and the click vanishes altogether. It's not because I'm masking it though. I don't have to be right on it. It gets to where I don't need it. I'm not listening for it anymore. I do probably still hear it but I'm not really paying any attention to it.
 
mixsit said:
I've also heard it said it would be natural for a drummer to not hear the click if he's playing right on it?
The effect of masking presumably..
Click to expand...
Like Greg said, I don't think it's masking as much as the click becomes part of the music when everything is going well.

Too many people think the click is a stiff ruler that you have to be right on top of, which isn't true. It is simply tempo for the musicians to play around. Once you wrap your head around that, the stiffness in a performance to a click starts to go away.
 
Farview said:
Like Greg said, I don't think it's masking as much as the click becomes part of the music when everything is going well.

Too many people think the click is a stiff ruler that you have to be right on top of, which isn't true. It is simply tempo for the musicians to play around. Once you wrap your head around that, the stiffness in a performance to a click starts to go away.
Click to expand...

This X 1000000000000000000000. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

A click track doesn't make anything stiff or robotic. It's just a guide.

Like I said before, people that can't work with and around a click track are talentless hacks.
 
Farview said:
Too many people think the click is a stiff ruler that you have to be right on top of, which isn't true. It is simply tempo for the musicians to play around. Once you wrap your head around that, the stiffness in a performance to a click starts to go away.
Click to expand...

Definitely this. ^^^^^

I always use a click to record to and often to practice to. Although I replace the sound with a HiHat because I just cannot listen to that PIP! Pop Pop Pop disgusting noise.
 
I try to do the pop, pip, pip, pip, I just can't. I tap put my BMP, find a groove track in EZ and I don't have too much of an issue. The only problem with that approach, the song picks up that groove. But, it is in time.
 
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