Recording with Mixer Preamps into DAW

adam79

New member
For the last hour I've been trying to record through with my Mackie 1202 - VLZ PRO Mixer's Preamp into my UA Apollo Interface. I have the Mic hooked up to a Mic Pre on the Mackie, then hooked up a cable from the Channel Insert to a Line input on my Apollo. The Mic is registering on the Mackie, so the problem is somewhere between the channel insert and Apollo Line In. Is there a certain way to hook this up that I might be missing? Like a button I failed to engage?

Thanks,
-Adam
 
Unless I'm mistaken, on the mackie the insert is a TRS jack. Meaning it is designed to send and receive. You would have a TRS plug that goes to 2 TS plugs one being a send and the other being a return.

You are using the insert as a direct out to feed your interface. I think if you inserted the cable just one click, as in not push it all the way in, then it will just send the mic/mixer signal to the interface.

However, I think this is not even needed as the Apollo probably has better preamps than the Mackie.

Give em both a try and see what happens.
:)
 
For the last hour I've been trying to record through with my Mackie 1202 - VLZ PRO Mixer's Preamp into my UA Apollo Interface.

For the love of sanity, why would you want to do such a thing??? The Apollo has much better preamps, plus you get the versatility of the unison function.

But maybe you have a valid reason... trying to record a live event off the mackie board or some strange monitoring situation. What kind of cables are you using? Did you push the insert cable in halfway or fully? Be sure they are only halfway Post up a screenshot of the UAD Console mixer. [Edit: I see RFR said the same thing.]

BTW: the apollo can be used as a live mixer. I haven't done it, but it's spelled out in the manual.
 
For the love of sanity, why would you want to do such a thing??? The Apollo has much better preamps, plus you get the versatility of the unison function.

But maybe you have a valid reason... trying to record a live event off the mackie board or some strange monitoring situation. What kind of cables are you using? Did you push the insert cable in halfway or fully? Be sure they are only halfway Post up a screenshot of the UAD Console mixer. [Edit: I see RFR said the same thing.]

BTW: the apollo can be used as a live mixer. I haven't done it, but it's spelled out in the manual.

I finally got it to work; the problem was simple...in the Console app I had the track set to Mic instead of Line. I needed to use the preamp on the Mackie cuz the only remaining mic cable I had was a XLR to 1/4". You can only use a XLR connector with the Apollo preamp connectors.

The only way I could get it to work was plugging the cable all the way (two clicks). In the manual it states that one click is a "direct out with no signal interruption to master." Inserting all the way in to the second click is a "direct out with signal interruption to master." Does this mean that the double click outputs the signal before the channel strip (EQ, Pan, etc.), while a single click outputs the entire strip?
 
It means a single click splits the signal so that it goes out to the interface but also still goes through the rest of the mixer to be available at the mixer's own outputs. The double-click stops it from going on to the rest of the mixer,l so that if you were listening to the mixer output, that channel would be muted. In your case, either way is fine.

That said, you could probably just plug the mic into a line input on the Apollo unless you need phantom power.
 
I needed to use the preamp on the Mackie cuz the only remaining mic cable I had was a XLR to 1/4". You can only use a XLR connector with the Apollo preamp connectors.

Don't let one mic cable stop you from using your equipment properly. Trying to piecemeal it together can yield poor results. With the Apollo, you don't need the mackie. Sell the Mackie and buy proper mic cables. Lots of them. :D
 
Don't you need a mic pre for a microphone?
Need and want are two different things. With loud enough sources into sensitive enough microphones, no you really don't. You can get all the clean, flat, quiet gain in the world once it's recorded.

I agree with Chili too, though. A decent mic cable is not that expensive and the balanced connection is sometimes worth it.
 
Need and want are two different things. With loud enough sources into sensitive enough microphones, no you really don't. You can get all the clean, flat, quiet gain in the world once it's recorded.

I agree with Chili too, though. A decent mic cable is not that expensive and the balanced connection is sometimes worth it.

Huh...I didn't think plugging a mic directly into a line input worked; I'll have to experiment with this. I'm gonna need all of the Apollo's 8 inputs to record my friend's band (only 4 channels have mic pres). I was under the assumption that to use mic's on the Line Inputs I'd need the preamps on my Mackie. I'm going to try both methods and go with what sounds better.

As far as buying cables or any equipment, I'm too strapped for cash at the moment to afford any new purchases.
 
While Ashcat's premise is technically true, it is not ideal. It really depends on the mic and the sound source and still, it will sound like shit without good impedance matching. A long time ago, I used to record with a 57 into a Line In using the XLR to 1/4 cable. I always wondered why I couldn't hear my T's or S's until I learned about impedance matching. lol

If you're using the mackie to get additional mics pre's over what the apollo provides, then you're doing it correctly. You really need the proper cables, though. If you can't afford it, then the band should be helping out. XLR to XLR cables are not expensive. Good luck and enjoy.
 
If you're using the mackie to get additional mics pre's over what the apollo provides, then you're doing it correctly. You really need the proper cables, though. If you can't afford it, then the band should be helping out. XLR to XLR cables are not expensive. Good luck and enjoy.

Definitely. When we do the actual recording all mics will be using XLR to XLR cables. We're going to rent a RE20 for the kick and bass amp (gonna DI the bass during the live recording and then overdub another bass track with the RE20 on the amp). Gonna try it on vocals too, A/B it against one of the LDC mics (MCA SP1) I'll be using for the drum overheads. I was originally thinking about a MD421, but after reading reviews on both, it seems like the MD421 is more suited for toms than the kick. They play punk rock and we're going for a vintage sound (as much towards vintage you can get with a digital recording). The RE20 seems like the right choice for this direction instead of a D112 or Beta52 (the other bass mics, besides the MD421, offered at the rental place). I've owned a D112 in the past and wasn't a fan; it's a bit too boomy for my taste. I've never tried the Beta 52, but it seems to contemporary. We can only afford to rent the mic for one day, so I need to make sure I have everything ready to go before hitting record. I was messing around with mic placement and the only cable I had left for the kick was a XLR to 1/4".
 
While Ashcat's premise is technically true, it is not ideal. It really depends on the mic and the sound source and still, it will sound like shit without good impedance matching.

Exactly.

I'm sure people have different views...but it's all about the source, and how it's recorded, IMO.
So why set yourself up with some jury-rigged approach if there's no reason to do it that way....but, I know some people seem to prefer doing everything with some jury-rigged approach. ;)
 
While Ashcat's premise is technically true, it is not ideal. It really depends on the mic and the sound source and still, it will sound like shit without good impedance matching. A long time ago, I used to record with a 57 into a Line In using the XLR to 1/4 cable. I always wondered why I couldn't hear my T's or S's until I learned about impedance matching. lol ...

I've never tried it with a dynamic mic that I can recall, but did it for quite a while with Earthwoks condensers- monitoring only into a mackie, but split direct into the A/D as well.
What's curious is mackie shows ' 2.5k mic in, 10k 'all other inputs'. I'd thought if there was going to be a loss in highs it would come from higher loading (lower impedance) at the input.

..maybe from shorting one of the legs to ground from the TS connection?
 
Using the line in, I'm pretty sure you need an impedance transformer for a dynamic mic.

Used those all the time for my Tascam 246.
 
Yeah, and I'm thinking there's a hole in my understanding. Haven't thought about it in while. Same goes for low z mix into a guitar amp- well up in the meg ohm input range.
 
I've done it and seen it work, but you guys got me to wondering exactly what I might be compromising and by how much, so I went ahead and did some half-assed tests. I can't imagine it will convince anybody of anything, and I wasn't particularly surprised, but it was interesting.

So, I don't have a particularly deep mic locker, but I picked four dynamic mics that I use quite a bit, and I think are in the range of things somebody who can't afford a mic cable might be using - an EV Cobalt 6, an EV 635a, a Nady DM80, and (since a 57 was mentioned above, but I don't have one here) an SM58.

The best I could do for a consistent signal source was to play a song from YouTube through BlueTooth from my phone to a Gemini powered speaker. So not exactly a full range signal, but I think good enough given the limits of these types of mics. Completely not anywhere near scientific, but...

I recorded from the beginning of the song three times through each mic into my Tascam US-1641. Once was into the 2.2K XLR mic input with the gain all the way down which is -6db, and where I have tended to keep them just for safety's sake. Second was with the gain knob up to where the signals were peaking around -8dbfs. I did not try too hard to match these levels very closely between the different mics because I was just looking for an idea of how all the way down compares to more normal usage. Third was with an XLR > TS cable directly into one of the 10K Line Inputs. Those don't have gain, so just straight unity.

Then I normalized them all and ran them through SPAN for some investigatating. The difference in all cases is noise, but the result is counter-intuitive. The noise on the pass with the gain up is always significantly quieter than the other two, like pretty much consistent with the amount of gain that was applied by the preamp. This must be the noise floor of the interface, and must come mostly from after the preamp circuit. Without any gain, it's still around 60db down or better, which is better than cassette or any electric guitar, and could be better with a bit louder source.

It turns out that the TS input is always hotter than the XLR input at 0, but almost never by the full 6db that the specs would suggest. It is, however, quieter in terms of noise by a bit more than 6db in all cases.

But I literally see no difference in the frequency response until we get up to the >12K region where they all roll off pretty severely and the lower gain inputs are lost in noise.

So it basically all depends on everything of course. Different mics and interfaces will interact differently, and the only way to tell exactly how the gear you have will work together is to plug it in and find out. I don't ever understand why people go looking for more complicated and/or expensive solutions rather than trying the thing they have right there already.

Whether the noise is too much depends on the volume of the source and kind of the needs of the destination. It has convinced me that I should probably twiddle the knobs a little more when I'm recording with dynamic mics rather than just taking them at 0, though honestly with the things I record it has literally never been an issue.

I have never actually meant to come across as advocating the XLR>TS thing as the right way to do it. All I said was "with loud sources and sensitive microphones it can usually work", and that's pretty much still where I'm at.
 
I have never actually meant to come across as advocating the XLR>TS thing as the right way to do it. All I said was "with loud sources and sensitive microphones it can usually work", and that's pretty much still where I'm at.


That's the thing...it may work OK in a specific scenario.
For newbs, it may be hard to figure out what that specific scenario is, and just trying it, they may not even be sure of what it is they are looking/listening for...so IMO, if they use the norm (a preamp/mic input) rather than not, they'll have a better chance of getting the best result.

There's always that situation where you "make do" with what you have... but from a best practices perspective, I always lean toward the purpose-built solution....because it removes all doubt and I don't have to "try it and see"...I just know it will work.

YMMV... :)
 
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