Recording a full band on a scarlett-18i8

4

4tracker

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Can you guys give me recommendations on how you'd go about doing this? A family member is having some musical aspirations and wants me to record their band's demo. So this unit has 4xlrs and 4 line inputs on the back. I was thinking 3 xlrs for drums (kick, snare, 1 overhead/ambiance/cymbals), 1 xlr to mic the guitar cab, and then do bass via line-in. Overdub vocals after.

Is there a better way to do this? I've never been asked to record a full band and do my tracks one at a time...
 
I've never recorded a full band before.... but if I were to do so with your interface, I would:

Record scratch vocal and guitar to a click.
Playback scratch tracks and use all 4 inputs to record drums
Playback newly recorded drums and record guitar and bass.
Record vox and lead solo stuff last.
 
Why record on a click if we have a live drummer? You're saying to record a click, then have the drummer go back and record live drums over the click? Seems that would be really hard on the drummer to keep such perfect time.

If this helps, my mics are: 3 small condensers, 1 small omi condenser, 1 dynamic, 2 ribbons.
 
4tracker said:
Why record on a click if we have a live drummer?
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Chili said:
Record scratch vocal and guitar to a click.
Click to expand...

Because you're laying down scratch tracks and you don't want the guitar player setting the tempo.

And yes, I would have the drummer play to a click. It's not easy, it's not intuitive and it's a skill that has to be learned, but a drummer should be able to play to a click. And I the long run, it's better for the song.
 
i dont know how they do it, good drumming? but my sons band just did it laying down the drums first, then the rest.
they just started a album/cd to sell at gigs and thats how they did it. drums first then the rest. for the life of me i dont know how that works?
play drums to the song playing in your head?

for me it has to be rhythm guitar to a click, because i cant even program a drum machine in time. then its maybe bass and anything goes...and just noises and redoing things until im burnt out.
 
We want to record the full band (minus vocals) in one take, though, so the click track stuff won't work.

Would you guys use 1 mic, 2 mics, or 3 mics for drums? I will line-in bass, and use 1 xlr for guitar. The only question is drums really.
 
4tracker said:
I will line-in bass
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You're probably going to regret that, because a bass guitar is instrument level, not line level. It's gonna need a preamp.

I don't know why you'd stick to doing it fully live. You will definitely get better results doing it as was previously suggested. Especially considering you were going to do a mono overhead mic... If the drums are mono, and the bass is mono, and the vocals are being recorded mono, the only potential option you'll have for stereo is double tracking guitar and vocals.

But if you want to do it live, the best way I can see it being done your way is with the kick/snare/mono OH (or kick and stereo overheads), micing the guitar cab, and then either overdubbing the bass and vocals later, or you'll have to buy an outboard preamp for the bass guitar and then run that into the line input on the Focusrite.

Good luck to ya, mate.
 
You can just run everything through a mixer and just shove the resultant stereo mix into the computer.
But you'll have to play every section perfectly cause there will be no separating instruments.
There were plenty of bands up through the 60s that recorded that way....
 
MrWrenchey said:
You're probably going to regret that, because a bass guitar is instrument level, not line level. It's gonna need a preamp.

I don't know why you'd stick to doing it fully live. You will definitely get better results doing it as was previously suggested. Especially considering you were going to do a mono overhead mic... If the drums are mono, and the bass is mono, and the vocals are being recorded mono, the only potential option you'll have for stereo is double tracking guitar and vocals.

But if you want to do it live, the best way I can see it being done your way is with the kick/snare/mono OH (or kick and stereo overheads), micing the guitar cab, and then either overdubbing the bass and vocals later, or you'll have to buy an outboard preamp for the bass guitar and then run that into the line input on the Focusrite.

Good luck to ya, mate.
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Sorry, I meant DI not line-in.

So maybe 3 mics on drums, DI the bass, and mic the guitar. Then overdub guitar later for stereo. And we can do vocals later and maybe put some reverb on them for depth. I realize isolating the instruments will be difficult.

To answer why: because we have 1 or 2 days to do this, and it's just a demo for a family member. I don't want to dedicate time to click tracks and having some high school kid try to drum to that, which he probably is unfamiliar with and won't be able to do. These are 15 year old kids who are just trying to put together a demo to get some gigs.
 
TimOBrien said:
You can just run everything through a mixer and just shove the resultant stereo mix into the computer.
But you'll have to play every section perfectly cause there will be no separating instruments.
There were plenty of bands up through the 60s that recorded that way....
Click to expand...

Yeah I like this idea.
Anyone have suggestions onthe best way to separate drums from the guitar in a garage environment? I was going to put some blankets and padding on the walls, maybe face the guitar amp in the opposite direction from the drums and put it in a box or blanket and use cardiod or figure 8 mics to control what's hitting the mics. I think that's about all I can do given what I have to work with.
 
4tracker said:
Yeah I like this idea.
Anyone have suggestions onthe best way to separate drums from the guitar in a garage environment? I was going to put some blankets and padding on the walls, maybe face the guitar amp in the opposite direction from the drums and put it in a box or blanket and use cardiod or figure 8 mics to control what's hitting the mics. I think that's about all I can do given what I have to work with.
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That's why recording the parts separatly, as originally suggested, is the best method. Or just set up the band like a live performance, and take the stereo feed from the mixer, or set up a couple of mics to capture the whole 'live' sound.
In a couple of days, recording how you suggest (drums/guitar/bass at same time) then tracking vocals and more guitar separate is going to sound like sh!t unless you really know what you are doing with mixing.
 
4tracker said:
Sorry, I meant DI not line-in.
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The inputs on the back of the Focusrite are line inputs, so unless you have a DI box and external preamp, plugging in an instrument cable to the back of that Focusrite doesn't suddenly make it a DI box. You'll need an external preamp to bring it up to a proper level, because those are line inputs, not instrument/hi-Z inputs.
 
MrWrenchey said:
The inputs on the back of the Focusrite are line inputs, so unless you have a DI box and external preamp, plugging in an instrument cable to the back of that Focusrite doesn't suddenly make it a DI box. You'll need an external preamp to bring it up to a proper level, because those are line inputs, not instrument/hi-Z inputs.
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You are right. But on the front are two instrument inputs. I can plug a bass into those and use it as a DI, correct?
 
4tracker said:
You are right. But on the front are two instrument inputs. I can plug a bass into those and use it as a DI, correct?
Click to expand...

Yes, but you originally said this: "I was thinking 3 xlrs for drums (kick, snare, 1 overhead/ambiance/cymbals), 1 xlr to mic the guitar cab, and then do bass via line-inZ" So what are you giving up for the bass to be plugged in?

Alan.
 
witzendoz said:
Yes, but you originally said this: "I was thinking 3 xlrs for drums (kick, snare, 1 overhead/ambiance/cymbals), 1 xlr to mic the guitar cab, and then do bass via line-inZ" So what are you giving up for the bass to be plugged in?

Alan.
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I think I'd have to mic the drum kit using 2.

I'll have to research the best technique for that and then listen to the room once I'm there.
Would using noise gates help isolate the drum from the guitar? If so, would you add them live while recording or after?
 
The scarlett 18i8 also has an ADAT input IIRC so if you want more than 8 simultaneous you could pick up an 8 channel input device that has an ADAt out.

For example you could get an old Alesis ADAT and an old 8 channel mixer on the cheap off ebay for probably $150. Boom, 8 more channels.
 
4tracker said:
I think I'd have to mic the drum kit using 2.

I'll have to research the best technique for that and then listen to the room once I'm there.
Would using noise gates help isolate the drum from the guitar? If so, would you add them live while recording or after?
Click to expand...

If you're using an overhead microphone, then no, there's no way a noise gate is REALLY going to cut any of the guitar cabinet out.

What's the reason you're having to record live? I honestly don't understand why you're trying to cut so many corners just to have it be live. I mean, I know it's a family member's recording, so you're probably not getting paid, but there's going to be a ton of bleed between the guitar and drums, and you'll only have control over a single overhead mic and the kick drum if you're using two mics.

I dunno, personally, my suggestion is to either give up on the live scenario and use 4 mics on the drums, then do a second take with the guitar and bass at the same time (since bass would be DI, there's not going to be bleed between the bass and guitar amp). This would give you the most options on drums for mix down, and zero bleed.

Of course, if you're dead set on doing live, my other recommendation is to utilize the ADAT input on the back as burgundy recommended, so you can at least utilize 4 channels of drums still. But in the end, it's up to you.
 
How's anyone going to hear the bass?
Does everyone have headphones with the bass or whole mix?
To make it EASY on you at least record the rhythm section 1st with stereo OH + kick & snare as well as bass gtr Di'd or otherwise. Perhaps you could have the singer & guitarist play along to keep the song on track (minumal bleed into the drum mics IF you've set up OK). & then add the rest in session 2.
From my experience recording a whole band means LOTS of stops & restarts when someone goofs and every one has to restart etc.
Think logically and you'll get there.
 
ibleedburgundy said:
The scarlett 18i8 also has an ADAT input IIRC so if you want more than 8 simultaneous you could pick up an 8 channel input device that has an ADAt out.

For example you could get an old Alesis ADAT and an old 8 channel mixer on the cheap off ebay for probably $150. Boom, 8 more channels.
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Thanks.

I think I've settled on the Glyn Johns technique of 3 mics for the drums, then 1 DI for bass. Everything else will be overdubs.

The other mic position I am considering is a dynamic close on the kick, a condenser close on the snare, and an omi as an overhead/room mic or the one described here under "180 degrees" http://www.drummagazine.com/plugged-in/post/minimalist-drum-miking-techniques/

I have zero training with recording other than tinkering on my 4track, so that's the reason I am trying to do it all in one take and live: ignorance. Plus I only have 1 day to do this, and it's just a two song demo they want.
 
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