Podcast Rig

Chris McDaniel

New member
I've been recording podcasts for a few months now thru mixing boards into garage band and streaming the audio thru mixlr.com in real time as sort of an online radio station. After the live show I clean up the audio a little bit and upload it to my website as the next podcast episode.
I started out with a Behringer Xenyx 1202 usb and some condenser mics and eventually upgraded to an Allen & Heath Zed 14 that I just love. It sounds great, is built like a tank, and does everything I need it to do except record multiple tracks.
I'm not ready, but I'm going to anyway, step up to multi-track recording so that I can isolate the 4 to 5 speakers I have on a show and edit out them talking over each other when needed, or clean up the parts of audio when they're not talking, and I would just love some recommendations based on what I need.

-Needs to be somewhat portable. I will be taking the whole rig on the road once a week to record at a friend's house.
-I need a minimum of 8 inputs.
-It would be fantastic if those inputs had some sort of automatic gain
-I need to do at least 1 mix-minus for plugging my cellphone in (on my mixing board it's pretty easy, not sure yet how it works in a digital I/O)
-I need to be able to multi-track record while also having individual track fader control over a feed that goes out to my mixlr software to broadcast live.
-I need to be able to fade out an intro song or fade in the exit song. Or keep a fader down on a call-in guest until I'm ready to introduce him.

I think those are my major requirements. It's late and I'm exhausted from another several hour long session of trying to figure out what the hell I need to do this. I have a lot of hobbies and none seem to be anywhere freaking close to as dense as audio engineering. The Alesis Multimix 16 USB 2.0 originally caught my eye. It would theoretically do everything I need at an incredibly low price, so OF COURSE they had to discontinue it. Am I going crazy or does that smack anybody else as kinda fishy? It's almost like Alesis went, 'hey, consumers, here's a full featured multi-track recorder/mixer that costs almost nothing', and then the whole industry took them aside and was like, 'WHAT THE HELL are you doing??? You can't just give people exactly what they need in a simple form for cheap! That is NOT how our industry does business!!!', and the next day it gets mysteriously discontinued.
Oh well, whatevs, next I started looking into the Zoom R24. It does the multi-track recording, is insanely portable, and has faders. Seems like it'll fit the bill, but I'm seeing mixed reviews on sound and build quality.
Just tonight I started looking into the Roland Octa Capture. It gets glowing reviews for it's sound and has automatic gain on all channels (a big plus), but it doesn't have any faders for me to manipulate a live broadcast signal. As I look into it, i'm slowly starting to comprehend that those controls can be accessed in the software, but I do not want to get rid of the tactile feel of fading in and out channels as needed, it's a requirement. I think there's apparently some way to hook up a separate DAW controller, but I can't wrap my head around getting a 2nd piece of gear when there seems to be products out there that'll do it all in 1 piece of gear. Doesn't make sense to me.
At some point I might get an Allen & Heath Zed R16. It seems to do what I want, except for not being very portable.
Can anybody help me out to make heads or tails of what I should look into?
 
Hi Chris,
Probably the only game in town for a multitrack AI is the Tascam US 1608 the new version of the US 1800. Roland have product but I think the cost is considerably greater and, although I have read nothing bad about them, the Tascam's rep is a bit legendary!

AGC on each track? Not for this sort of money methinks tho' others might have ideas. But since you are tracking then editing/pimping later, just record well down, neg 25 is certainly not too low (24 bits) and compress/limit/gain boost later?

Dave.
 
Okay. So you want to multitrack record your programme at the same time as feeding a mixed version out live?

I know it's unfashionable but I wouldn't try to do it all on one machine. I'd very deliberately separate the functions.

The Zed R16 would be an excellent choice for you providing you know you'll be able to keep using Firewire. Lot's of computers have dropped FW support entirely. On the other hand, Thunderbolt is finally appearing and the Firewire to Thunderbolt converters seem to work.

Anyway, I'd get the R16 and use that to feed the individual tracks into a computer for later editing. However, I'd take an analogue mixed feed out of the mixer into a second computer (or even an iPad or phone) and use THAT to encode your live version. This way, faults on one won't affect the other.

AGC? The spawn of the devil. Eight different inputs pumping up and down depending on whether or not somebody is speaking will sound like rubbish. Professional radio and TV studios don't use AGC and neither should you. Honest, mixing 8 inputs of speech becomes second nature really quickly.

Yeah, I'm sure you can find a box that might do it all but not nearly as reliably and conveniently as keeping it all separate.
 
I'm freaking telling you there's a conspiracy afoot. Everytime I find a control surface/IO/mixer that does everything for a reasonable price in a small form factor, it's DISCONTINUED and there's no modern version.
I'm going to build a time machine, go back 5 years ago and buy all of them, come back to now, and then sell them for 5 times as much.
 
I need to do some solid research on podcasting/broadcasting because we're getting more and more inquiries about these things around here, and I'm way too ignorant on the tools of the trade to be of much help.

If there is a way to route the output of a DAW into your streaming software, then that'd be the way to go. You could go with an 8-input audio interface and use a DAW to do all of your compression, fader riding, muting, etc. I've heard of things like virtual audio cable that can route output of one app into the input of another app. I'll have to do some research on this. But bottom line, I think that you're talking about a pretty big expense to do all of this out-of-the-box, and the more you can do in a software DAW, the cheaper and more convenient it's gonna be.
 
No sweat, we don't know what we need either! Because the medium is pretty new, we're wandering over to you guys' party and seeing if we can coopt your stuff to do what we need. Especially as we get a little more experience under our belts we’re realizing that we need more complicated equipment, multi-track recorders and DAW’s. But there are so many products over here in this field that it’s dizzying and we’re having trouble figuring it all out, because we’re not audio-engineers, we’re really not even that interested in audio quality (don’t get me wrong, I just mean to the level you guys are). I guess our primary focus is more on usability if I had to pick one. We’re looking for a solution that can do some mixing, multi-tracks, and is fairly easy to use and straightforward, so that we can concentrate on the show not on the equipment.
I complicate this a little because I also like to broadcast my podcasts live while they’re happening which is pretty rare in podcasting. Most podcasters just want to record it and release it later. Actually, as I type this I’m starting to realize I might be overthinking it. The way my broadcast software works, it just picks up everything that’s happening on my computer’s USB bus. I’ve been trying to account for how I’m going to get my recording mix to it, but I think it’ll be fairly straight forward. The Tascam US 16x08 looks like it might be the cheapest/best way to go, although that Behringer xAir18 is verrrrry interesting looking.
 
My 2 cents,. I do think your overthinking it. I also think the ability to multitrack a multi-party podcast would be overkill. Unless your making enough money off it of course,. then i might see justifing the higher production values. It really just comes down to getting paid for my time and I don't see all the extra editing effort paying off in this scanario,. besides,.a little overexcited cross talk on a sportscast is part of its charm. I would stick with what I had if I were you and spend my time/money on providing awesome content(on a regular basis) and marketing. But,. if you just gotta ,. i'd go with the new Tascam 16x08 as well. And like Tadpui said,. your DAW or podcasting software should be able to handle the effects side of things. When you say gain control I think your just really wanting some broadcast type compression across the masterbus to level the playing field a little,. rather than a hardware compressor built into each channel,. which ain't gonna happen. ***Edit: I was wrong,. about the US-16x08 Tascam says "Built into the US-16x08 is a DSP Mixer for low-latency digital mixing. Each channel has four-band EQ and compression for polished-sounding monitor mixes."

Tadpui: I ran through this a couple days ago,. LOTS of good info and free right now with coupon code IPD15.
https://www.udemy.com/planning-your-podcast/
 
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Thanks, you are absolutely correct I believe. The jump from stereo analog mixing into garage band to multi-track recording in Reaper is huge and would take considerably more time and resources. I think you're spot on with your assessment of where time should be spent for better return on investment.
HOWEVER!!!, I am gunna pick up the Tascam (since it's pretty freaking cheap) and experiment with it as a hobby on the side. If I can ever get a handle on it and it makes sense in my podcasting workflow I'll consider transitioning to it, but for now the stereo recording is working fine and best of all takes very little time, meaning I can drop new podcasts faster.
Thanks ya'll, really appreciate it.
 
God damnit, I take it all back. Could somebody please tell me why nobody is making one of these right now? Amazon.com: Tascam FW1082 FireWire Audio Interface: Musical Instruments I am so freaking tempted to find either a firewire converter or an old mac with firewire. This is RIDICULOUS I can't buy something like this when they existed over 10 years ago.

Mainly because nobody needs a control surface built in to their audio interface. It just adds unnecessary expense to an audio interface, and people just starting out don't want to shell out hundreds of dollars on top of the expense of an audio interface just to have faders and a pan knob. You do all of that control surface stuff with a mouse and keyboard in a DAW.

I looked into the virtual audio cable, and I'm still underwhelmed by the options. The most popular one only supports WDM, which will have some serious latency. I found an ASIO one, but I can't really tell much about it yet. But simply being able to run all of your inputs into an interface, plug that interface into a computer and use a DAW like Reaper to host all of your compressors/limiters/EQs, and route that output to your broadcasting software would be the ideal setup.
 
I fiddled around with Mixlr tonight. I plugged a mic into my interface and was able to pretty quickly get up and running with it. The trouble arises when you want to do like you mention: add processing to the signal. Mixlr can't host VSTs. But a DAW like Reaper can. The problem is that in order to get better sound quality and lower latency, you need to use ASIO drivers. But ASIO doesn't allow sharing of the same device between multiple apps. So even the virtual audio cable doesn't help here (I found an ASIO version of the virtual audio cable called ASIO Bridge). In Reaper, you can only select a single device, and that device is both your input and your output device. So I can't record from my AI and send Reaper's output to ASIOBridge.

I think that Bobbsy is right...two computers might be the trick. One is the audio machine, and the other is the broadcast machine. The audio machine uses the audio interface and runs the DAW. Mix all of your inputs as needed in the DAW. The DAW outputs a stereo signal out the AI's main outputs (and depending on the AI, through the headphone output as well). The AI's main outputs are hooked to a stereo input on the broadcast machine, which is running Mixlr, set with the integrated sound card's stereo line inputs as a sound source.

Add a headphone distribution amp and everybody can hear what the interface hears, or they can hear the final stereo mix from the AI's outputs.

The reason that I keep bringing up a DAW is because you can have compressors/limiters on each person's mic, plus a master compressor/limiter for overall program leveling.
 
if you like that,... something like the Zoom R16 would probably get you where you wanna be,. 8 inputs,.portable,. works independent of streaming pc and you wouldn't need a separate interface.
 
Wow, great suggestions. Tadpui I think you're right. I'm gunna try going from a post fx output on the AI to a 3.5mm jack into a dedicated ipad or iphone with the portable mixlr app. I think I even have my wife's last generation iphone laying around at home, that'll be my 'broadcast rig'. This could actually work, I'm excited.

Dyermaker8, I keep changing my mind between the Tascam US 16x08 and the Zoom R24. The Tascam has way more connectivity going for it, but the Zoom has my beloved faders going for it. For my application I think the Zoom R24 fits the bill better.

I still have a couple general questions if you guys don't mind. When I'm recording say, 4 tracks through an I/O into a DAW, what do faders (either physical ones on something like an R24 or virtual ones in the actual DAW) actually do? Do they change the volume of the actual recording, or just change the volume of the output and the recording stays constant? Say, if I have 4 hosts talking on an active recording, 1 on each channel 1-4, if I fade down host 1 for 30 seconds and then fade him back up, will the actual recording reflect that 30 second silence, or will the recording have his talking as if it was never faded?

Secondly, what's the best way to set gain for vocals captured thru condenser mics? Currently on my little analog mixer I feel like I'm fiddling with the gain on each channel that a host is talking on always trying to follow them when they talk louder or softer. Sometimes I'll mess with the gain and the fader in tandem, one in each hand trying to follow the host. I have a feeling that this is not the 'correct' way to be doing it. Should I just set a gain level at the beginning and leave it throughout, and try to fix any deviations in a host's speaking levels in post with compressors, limiters, etc? Should I set the gain and ride the levels exclusively? What's the deal?
 
" I feel like I'm fiddling with the gain on each channel that a host is talking on always trying to follow them when they talk louder or softer. Sometimes I'll mess with the gain and the fader in tandem, one in each hand trying to follow the host."

Ha! Just as it's more difficult to do a "pro" job with less than pro kit, trying to capture "non pro" Joe Public is a bloody nightmare! You put banquet stand mics on the top table for the AGM but when the Treasurer stands up he is 7 foot tall! The Head of Sales who was blasting your ear with his half-yearly figures at the bar earlier gets all shy in front of 150 people and mumbles into his chest.

Really not a lot you can do other than try to educate peeps in mic technique. I am registered deaf, got two digital aids but even without them I can easily follow a "professional" speaker, my teacher daughter who speaks plainly and clearly AT me! Until you ARE deaf (or try to mic them up!) you really don't know how bad people are at communicating generally.

Mutton Dave.
 
Ain't that the truth! Even beyond the mechanics of someone talking into a microphone (which can be super frustrating), some people get really weird when you put a mic in front of them! More than 1 guy I know will talk my ear off right up to the point where I hit 'record' to start a podcast, then they go F'ing SILENT during the show! Best of all, IMMEDIATELY after the show is over they throw off their headphones and start being gregarious and loud and personable again. It's so weird.
 
Wow, great suggestions. Tadpui I think you're right. I'm gunna try going from a post fx output on the AI to a 3.5mm jack into a dedicated ipad or iphone with the portable mixlr app. I think I even have my wife's last generation iphone laying around at home, that'll be my 'broadcast rig'. This could actually work, I'm excited.

Dyermaker8, I keep changing my mind between the Tascam US 16x08 and the Zoom R24. The Tascam has way more connectivity going for it, but the Zoom has my beloved faders going for it. For my application I think the Zoom R24 fits the bill better.

I still have a couple general questions if you guys don't mind. When I'm recording say, 4 tracks through an I/O into a DAW, what do faders (either physical ones on something like an R24 or virtual ones in the actual DAW) actually do? Do they change the volume of the actual recording, or just change the volume of the output and the recording stays constant? Say, if I have 4 hosts talking on an active recording, 1 on each channel 1-4, if I fade down host 1 for 30 seconds and then fade him back up, will the actual recording reflect that 30 second silence, or will the recording have his talking as if it was never faded?

Secondly, what's the best way to set gain for vocals captured thru condenser mics? Currently on my little analog mixer I feel like I'm fiddling with the gain on each channel that a host is talking on always trying to follow them when they talk louder or softer. Sometimes I'll mess with the gain and the fader in tandem, one in each hand trying to follow the host. I have a feeling that this is not the 'correct' way to be doing it. Should I just set a gain level at the beginning and leave it throughout, and try to fix any deviations in a host's speaking levels in post with compressors, limiters, etc? Should I set the gain and ride the levels exclusively? What's the deal?

In a DAW,. when using a control surface, you can usually assign the faders to do what ever you want them to do. The general concept is you have a gain(or trim) knob to adjust the level of the microphone preamplifier for the signal going into the daw. Then you can use the faders to match all your voices/instruments in the mixing process(which can be done live as well). Several options,. like throwing a limiter on the master bus, would help even out everybodies volumes. So for example,. and this is real generic but should give you an idea. Set the gain so that when talking directly into the mic it sounds good and is not to hot (-10-15db) on the meter. Setup your limiter for 3-6db reduction on the master bus. Then get everybody talking so you can make adjustments on the faders to get everybody close to even volumes. Then raise the limiters makeup gain until the final volume is up to about -3 to -6db(red is bad). Hit record.
 
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Chris,
I just found this Board and your forum post here. I'm trying to setup for a podcast about the fire-rescue service. I just picked up the Xenyx Q1202 USB the other day. Did you find that you had a lot of "noise" coming through the board? The two laptops I'm using, as well as the 1202 are all plugged into their own APS UPS, with no other electrical items in there. Am I still picking up the loop from that or is this from the board?
Thanks and kudos to the Admins for creating this Podcasting Forum.
Steve
 
Steve,. are you using one or more mics that attach with 1/4" jacks? if so those are probably unbalanced cables,. if the cable came with the mic there's a chance (cheap mics) that its wired unbalanced as well. Unbalanced is not pro audio and will likely be a noise source in a high gain mic preamp enviroment. Best to use mics that are balanced and use XLR cables when going into mixing board. To test if they are the source of the noise, simply start unplugging your mics while live monitoring your noisy signal. Or more simply, is there noise with no input? Of course. Live monitor channel one with no mic plugged in,. turn up the input gain till your hear noise. Now your at the "noise floor" for that channels preamp. While an budget import mixer will likely have a lower noise floor than its pro/custom cousin, it should still be workable when using other reasonable quality gear.

Mods, This should probably be its own thread... also Steve,. if you'd like some personal help let me know.
 
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