Recording drums (4 mic method) problem...

P

photoresistor

New member
Alright, a little background info: my band practices in my basement and we have tried to record there a few times. I run an Aardvark Direct Pro 24/96 to my computer in N-Track.

AKG-D112 on kick
SM-57 on snare
2 MXL V57M condensors
Canare cables

I set up the overheads like the SAE suggests to get the proper stereo image:

Kit%208.gif



Now the problem here is that the overheads seem to be picking up more snare than the 57 is (one of the problem is just how stinkin loud it is... he has a maple piccolo). I have the 57 up as far as it will go without clipping. But when I turn the overheads down in the mix to take the snare down the cymbals become too quiet.

Any idea of what i can do? I have the mics as high up as they can go in my basement. Do i just need to tell my drummer to stop playing as loud on the snare? Should I try a different mic placement technique or try to EQ the snare out more on the overheads? I didnt want to mess too much with this mic placement because i would screw up the 'stereo imaging'.

Thanks...
 
Or do without the Snare mic altogether if you're already getting plenty of Snare in the Overheads.
 
That's pretty normal, as it's basically giving a fair picture of what's happening on the kit. (I go sort of a 4-mic setup too. Thumbs up, FWIW.:rolleyes: )
One way to look at it is, be thankfull the snare isn't a whimpy mess and go with it (if it fits the sound you want) and use the snare track to fill in -for tone, separate effects, whatever.
Or, a real fast comp can be used to punch as much of it as you like out of the 'kit' pair. Used to do that with an RNC occasionally. It's very effective at dialing as much or as little of the snare in, even the snare envelope can be twisted in all sorts of ways.
Yeah?:D
Wayne
 
How about experimenting with the drum / cymbal positioning? Keep in mind those mic positions are just a suggestion. I usually place the mics above our drummers head so they pick up sort of an exagerated stereo image of what he hears.
 
fenix said:
um, turn the snare track down.
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Well thats what i have been having to do, but I like the sound of the SM-57 on the snare better than the sound it gets through the overheads. If I turn the overheads down I lose too much of the cymbal sound.

Originally posted by Mark7
Or do without the Snare mic altogether if you're already getting plenty of Snare in the Overheads.
Click to expand...

Yeah I might have to do that. It was just easier spending the money for the 57 when i was thinking i could use it for guitar amps AND snare drums. ;)

Originally posted by mixsit
That's pretty normal, as it's basically giving a fair picture of what's happening on the kit. (I go sort of a 4-mic setup too. Thumbs up, FWIW. )
One way to look at it is, be thankfull the snare isn't a whimpy mess and go with it (if it fits the sound you want) and use the snare track to fill in -for tone, separate effects, whatever.
Or, a real fast comp can be used to punch as much of it as you like out of the 'kit' pair. Used to do that with an RNC occasionally. It's very effective at dialing as much or as little of the snare in, even the snare envelope can be twisted in all sorts of ways.
Yeah?
Wayne
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestions... Thats basically what I was having to do, I was just wondering if there was a better way to do things. I dont have a compressor yet so I can't try that other suggestion (only plugs).

Originally posted by Ptron
How about experimenting with the drum / cymbal positioning? Keep in mind those mic positions are just a suggestion. I usually place the mics above our drummers head so they pick up sort of an exagerated stereo image of what he hears.
Click to expand...

I might have to try this too. I wasn't sure how concrete those mic positions were.

Thanks for all your input. I'll post back when I'm able to track the drums again.

Should i take it that it would be a bad idea to just EQ-out the snare's main frequencies in the overhead mics?

thanks again
 
I also sometimes mic the bottom of the snare instead of the top in the 4mic setup because you do get a decent amount of the top in th OH's. Funny, my problem with a 4 mic setup is usually too much cymbals.
 
sounds like the problem could be the drummer has his cymbals way too close to the snare. I play my cymbals about 2.5-3 feet above the snare. Tell him to hit the cymbals harder.
 
photoresistor said:

Thanks for the suggestions... Thats basically what I was having to do, I was just wondering if there was a better way to do things. I dont have a compressor yet so I can't try that other suggestion (only plugs).
Click to expand...

Plugs may do fine too. I mentioned rnc because it was one that seems to do what's it's set to do.
Mostly it does simply come down to how the drums are being played first yes?
:)
Wayne
 
Whenever I space out my overheads like that, I get crazy phase issues. My overheads are usually very close together but panned hard left and right.
 
photoresistor said:



Should i take it that it would be a bad idea to just EQ-out the snare's main frequencies in the overhead mics?
Click to expand...

It's not that it's a bad idea, it's just it's preferable to get a good sound with well positioned mics.

If you want to use EQ, just experiment with a cut somewhere in the 150 - 300Hz will pull some of the punch out of the snare. However you'll lose it off the toms as well
 
I'd play with your overhead placement. I prefer to put them in front of the kit, as high as you can, one pointing towards your floor tom and one pointing towards the high hats. This might cut some of your snare. Also, micing the bottom of the snare is a good idea.
 
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