Recording with compression settings

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davecg321

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When recording with a compressor (usually hardware) what settings would be preferable to snip off those spikey transients? Fast attack,low ratio, fast release, high threshold?

I'm assuming using a plugin first in the chain can also act as the 'hardware' compressor. I usually use the two compressors trick to tame tracks (particularly vocals) without sounding squished. So in effect I'd be using 3 here.

Anyone else out there use this kind of setup?

Tah
 
I record via a digital mixer and have the ability to add compression to every channel. I never use it (with the exception of a "but" I'm about to give).

I usually DO have the compressors turned on but acting only as a hard limiter if any of my levels get near 0dB(FS). However, I set my gain structure so that this pretty well never happens...maybe a few times a year, usually because a vocalist or musician decides to "go for it" and seriously exceed the levels they gave during sound check. Working this way has occasionally saved a brilliant take that would otherwise be runed by clippping.

Compression designed to change the sound and help the mix is best done during the mix.
 
For settings of just trimming the peaks, as I read it theres the 2:1 ratio, fast attack and release.
Whats cool in the DAW era is you can see the comp in action on the wave form.
So I did that with a FMR/RNC and couldnt hear the comp but could see it trimming.

The vocal track articles interest me the most currently...the mics, the pre's and comps used on various songs.
Its crazy from SM7, to U67 to SM58, to MXL990 all on Billboard hits. Why Neve, API, became so sought after? or the 1176 or LA2A? Distressor ?

I think "leave Comp for later" is a wise way to record (CLA) but many slap the comps on during tracking (Al and others).
The hall-of-fame Neve73 pre to the 1176 or a LA2A with or without the Pultec eq...channel strip. Or a SM7 into the Pre/Comp is common.

If I was serious on something my Line 6 UX8+ PodFarm software allows both Dry and Processed at the same time by simply selecting which channel in Reaper. Ex Track 1 can be DRY and Track 2 can be processed, or I can select stereo processed etc...about any combination. Best of both worlds.

But getting a great mic and preamp is the "dry" sound which isnt always dry?, as solid state clean vs tube-ish vs transformer vs tube+transformer etc.... when CLA mentions tracking dry it might be a U67 into a SSL board or Neve and probably not a ProTools MAudio preamp on the interface.

this has preferences on Vocal tracking by some pro's-
Recording Vocals | Mixonline
 

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I have access to several hardware compressors, and there's usually one already patched on each channel for rehearsals. I usually bypass them when tracking because it can be done better ITB.
 
davecg321 said:
I'm assuming using a plugin first in the chain can also act as the 'hardware' compressor.
Click to expand...
Absolutely NOT.

A plugin is going to be AFTER the converter. It's not doing anything to the (potentially already damaged) signal. Only the post-recorded signal.

Sidenote -- You should have your preamp gain set so that there is absolutely positively no chance whatsoever of even getting *close* to full-scale. Absolute peaks of around -10dBFS is what I generally shoot for. Maybe just a whisker more for high-transient material (snare drums and the like) and considerable lower for more steady-state signals (synth pads and what not).
 
I only use compressors for the sound of compression, never to keep from clipping. When I was recording vocals, I would always have the limiter in my Langevin DVC engaged. But again, only for the sound of it.

If you are trying to stop clipping, using a plugin won't work. If you have already clipped the converters, you will be compressing the clipped signal.
 
davecg321 said:
When recording with a compressor (usually hardware) what settings would be preferable to snip off those spikey transients? Fast attack,low ratio, fast release, high threshold?

I'm assuming using a plugin first in the chain can also act as the 'hardware' compressor. I usually use the two compressors trick to tame tracks (particularly vocals) without sounding squished. So in effect I'd be using 3 here.

Anyone else out there use this kind of setup?

Tah
Click to expand...
Ding and ding again to the two posts above. Which back brings it around to you
-Why do you want the compression, what is it (are they) to accomplish?

I hardware compress (on a few tracks -voc, guitar maybe) at most during tracking a band or artist. But even being pretty good at this ('recording, mixing) am very conservative (read cautious), as I'm finding it is still easy to get it wrong.
But ditto re not doing it for 'safety. -1 For the sound of it, -2 to help move the track towards its final place in the mix sooner. (If before you have 'the mix'.. That can be the tricky part [grins
 
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What hardware compressor are you using?

Aside from nice boutique units (Expressor, 1176, L2D4, etc...), I can't see any advantages to printing compression from lower end hardware over some of the plug-ins available.
 
Farview said:
If you are trying to stop clipping, using a plugin won't work. If you have already clipped the converters, you will be compressing the clipped signal.
Click to expand...

this makes sense, like insurance, just there if you need to prevent a fast peak/spike for the converters, invisible to the ear really.
probably not needed unless someones going after it or moving around or unprofessional singers whacking off.
 
Yes, it's something that is employed in live recordingshow of business meetings and such, where no one knows how to work a mic and there are several people using the same mic. Some people are really quiet and they are always followed by loud poeple.

The quote you pulled was explaining why using a plugin for that purpose won't work.
 
yeah thats what I was imagining someone moving around a mic, untrained, quiet then yelling, poor mic technique and the compressor (auto fader) helps.... how often does that happen? ymmv.

if someone wants to spend money on a compressor to catch that then a real fast attack and fast release with low ratio would be invisible pretty much, depending on the source.

but still it might help. the OP mentions the two-comp trick....isnt that one reason the FMR RNC works so well it has a dual comp approach design? Ive owned the RNC a couple times and the last time was for this reason the OP states and the RNC works but I found I didnt really need it for myself HR and sold it.
 
Todzilla said:
What hardware compressor are you using?

Aside from nice boutique units (Expressor, 1176, L2D4, etc...), I can't see any advantages to printing compression from lower end hardware over some of the plug-ins available.
Click to expand...

thats kind of my current position after delving into vocal tracking. people use a Neve style preamp and a 1176/La2A a lot and thats standard because it works.

Seems its a Vocal standard as much as a Fender/Marshall amp cab is with a SM57.
It works well and is a standard. probably better off buying a NeveCopy/11766copy and trying that and adjust comp as needed and get some "tone" while doing it.(vocals in particular). In hindsight I wish I'd just bought the right gear and not spent decades trying to make junkgear sound like the standards.
 
In home recording, when it is a relatively controlled environment, it really shouldn't be necessary to have a safety limiter. In live broadcast or recording, it is necessary. (Even if it is just catch the sound of some fool dropping the mic)

The neve/la2a thing is really for the sound of it, not for level control. I would almost go so far as to say that most compression used in music recording is more for the sound of compression than it is for level control.
 
Farview said:
(Even if it is just catch the sound of some fool dropping the mic)
Click to expand...

ha forgot that one...a very fast compressor!? yikes...another reason to like Shure tank built stuff.

It took me forever to get that compressor "tone" thing in my brain, I'm a slow learner sometimes.

The sound many of us seek isnt the preamp so much as the compressor squashed and ALL-IN setting and the LA2A cranked waaaay up for that rock/pop/metal sound on the vocal or snare..or about anything at times, Byrds compressed acoustic guitars.... etc... I think the first time I finally got it was when I cranked up a plugin LA2A and was like "oh!! there it is!"
Like playing a Marshall at super low volumes, the signature sound isnt there.

My experience with preamp transformers and tubes and mic pre's didnt get close to the sound, it was the compressor. Im not real sure why the 1176 and LA2A became the right recipe in design but they got the soup recipe right it seems.
 
The LA-2A is also known for being used at gain reduction settings of zero. I'm not sure if the signal would even be touching the opto circuit in that case, but it still goes through all the tubes and transformers. It's as much about "the sound of that box" as anything.

I haven't used the hardware units, but what seems funny about the plugin clones is that people seem to claim that most of the code for those things is to get the faceplate to look the same. Beyond that, they don't really sound the same. People can get similar effects between the hardware and software, but the settings aren't even close. Having said that, there are some great sounding plugins out there. Perhaps you could get plugins to sound the same as a hardware unit with impulse responses, but then you need to pass signals through the hardware to set up the software. The plugin is no longer simply based on math in the code at that point.

Given the popularity of the LA-2A and 1176, it's interesting to note that those are not the only choices. You can change the character of the compression a lot by selecting different types. Opto, VCA, FET and Vari-Mu all behave differently. Attack and release characteristics of specific units can change the character. People have used Fairchild compressors or RCA BA6A, Manley Vari-Mu, DBX 160 and a host of others including channel and buss compression built into recording consoles. With an overwhelming amount of choice out there, you can actually get by very well with only 2 or 3 different types. Something great for doing heavy gain reduction on a drum buss or vocal is not necessarily what you'd use on the 2 buss.

Whatever works I guess.
 
The whole "most of the code goes to make the guitar look like the hardware" thing is an old idea, based on some bad, now defunct, plugins.

The waves and uad versions of those are pretty spot on, with regards to the version they are emulating.

For example, uad has 3 different 1176'styles, all emulating different revisions of the 1176.

The plugins do behave like the real units, but not necessarily like any specific one. Especially with vintage units, trying to get two hardware units to sound and behave exactly the same as each other is pretty hard to do. So getting a plugin to match the settings of a random hardware unit is pretty impossible.
 
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