Recording Bass Guitar

M

minipops

New member
Hi folks. I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to recording Bass. I can't figure out how you can record it effectively. If I play hard enough to not buzz out on the frets I get a punchy signal that peaks. If I play to quiet it sounds like a lifeless performance. Either or the performance is lack luster in sound quality. Im using a SR Ibanez 5 string bass with active Bartolini pickupsthe signal flows from that through to a apogee duet and out to a imac and a Logic Pro X bass preset. I also have tried guitar rig 5 bass presets and ezmix2.

When I use trilian I get what I want. Beautiful sound full of life. How can I re-create the sharp, crisp and gorgeous sounds that trilian offers in my own bass recordings?

Any insight would be very appreciated.

Thanks, and keep on Mixin'
 
Sounds like a gain staging issue. When you play at a comfortable level you're overloading the preamp or clipping the converters right?
So turn the gain down or, if it is down, turn down the bass guitar volume.

Is it safe to assume you're plugging into a hi-z/instrument input?
 
Most likely you need an outboard compressor, this will keep that punchy tone from peaking. DBX 160x are great for bass in the cheap range.

Remember, Trilian uses VERY expensive instruments too make their samples. Such as a 63 Fender Precision into an Ampeg Svt miced with a Nuemann 147 into an LA2A Comp. Granted its virtual but you get the point.
 
An active bass is capable of putting out a pretty hot line level signal from a low impedance source. Don't plug it into the hole labeled "instrument", plug it into a line input, preferably set at +4dbu and you shouldn't be able to actually clip the converter. If you're still getting that "clack" noise that sounds like distortion lower pickups. Bass strings seem to swing a lot further than guitar strings when you really lay into them, and it's a lot easier to hit the pickups with the strings, which sounds like ass.
 
Wow, tons of great tips and advice! Thanks guys I'm so appreciative that you took the time.

Steenamaro, I am plugging straight into instrument 1 of my apogee duet.

PDP, can I not achieve a solid compression from the compressors in Logic X, ezmix2 and guitar rig 5?

Ashcat_It, will a line input offer the same quality as a instrument input? I've got nothing to lose at this point cuz my bass recordings are very lifeless, even with a big ezmix2 insert it's still missing the mark.
 
We (son and I) find DI bass to be the only practical solution in a domestic setting. Quite apart from the ant-social aspects, a bass rig in a normal room rattles every mortal thing around it and it is hard to keep those noises out of the recording (and even if you could the crap sound does head in).

Re compression, yes a good pre amp/compressor would be nice but costly, answer? Record the bass way low, neg 20 even -25dBfs (24 bits) that way you will not overload and can add software compression to taste.

Dave.
 
minipops said:
PDP, can I not achieve a solid compression from the compressors in Logic X, ezmix2 and guitar rig 5?

.
Click to expand...

Yes, but they all come AFTER the AD convertor. If you can borrow, or buy (with ability to return) a compressor I'd give it a try, to see if you like the sound.

Also you can try using both, a good preamp/compressor will make those modelers/sims sound better.
 
PDP said:
Yes, but they all come AFTER the AD convertor. If you can borrow, or buy (with ability to return) a compressor I'd give it a try, to see if you like the sound.

Also you can try using both, a good preamp/compressor will make those modelers/sims sound better.
Click to expand...

If he can get acceptably low latency he could use a plugin.

Dave.
 
- New strings, honestly this is one of the best things you can do if you want your bass to cut through. If you want it to clank almost obnoxiously then pro steel strings, regular sharp round tone go nickel and if you want it to be more mellow get flat wound nickel.


- Playing technique, it's possible to hit the strings hard without clacking but it takes practice. There is a point where it punches without that terrible transient clack sound happening.

- Gain staging like others have said.

Other than that, I would love to hear a clip of both your bass as your recording it and trillian to get an idea of what you are after.
 
minipops said:
Ashcat_It, will a line input offer the same quality as a instrument input? I've got nothing to lose at this point cuz my bass recordings are very lifeless, even with a big ezmix2 insert it's still missing the mark.
Click to expand...
Yes.

The difference between an instrument input and a line input is that the instrument input has a higher input impedance and a bunch more gain. Your ACTIVE bass doesn't need the high impedance or the gain. If you're running off of a single 9V, it will put out somewhere around 7.5V peak-to-peak at most. An instrument input can usually handle a volt or two, but by the time you get to 7, you're clipping every damn thing. A +4dbu line input can usually handle up to like 26V. So...

Plug it straight into the line in and you won't risk clipping the chain going into the computer. Then you can compress or add amp sims or whatever from there.

Like I said, if it still sounds like it's clipping, then you need to lower the pickups away from the strings
 
minipops said:
If I play hard enough to not buzz out on the frets I get a punchy signal that peaks. If I play to quiet it sounds like a lifeless performance.
Click to expand...

Guitargodgt said:
-Playing technique, it's possible to hit the strings hard without clacking but it takes practice. There is a point where it punches without that terrible transient clack sound happening.
Click to expand...

Yup.
I'm not a regular bass player, so technique was the learning curve I had to overcome. I could get it to sound real good just playing live, but when recording, there was either lots of noise or wimpy performance.
Then I found the right position for the bass for my body/arms/fingers...and discovered that zone where you can really play the strings hard, but with a lot less clacking fret noise, and it's just a nice fat THUMP.
My main issue is as I said...I'm not a regular bass player, so after a bunch of passes, my left hand will start to get tired, and then I start to lose the string pressure, which can cause some fret buzz at the tails of notes....but I've improved on that a lot over the last couple of years, and now it's very negligible.

After that....there's always DAW editing. :)
Takes me no time at all to remove noises or smooth out the tails.

I've tried using comps/gates on the bass going in....but...mmmm....it's not always the right sound or solution. It takes way too much comporession and/or gating to remove all of that stuff, and then the bass sounds like ass to me. So I usually record without any...or if its a real dynamic bass track with lots of hi/lo variations, I might put it through an opto comp for real gentle compression going in.
I also prefer to always go DI, and find the FET-based DIs to work the best with bass guitars. I also use my long-scale with flat-wounds most of the time, though occasionally I'll use my other bass with round-wounds when I want some more treble funk tones.
 
Active bass doesn't need a DI, especially not an active DI which might not have enough headroom to handle it.
 
Just saying that *I* prefer the DI route for my bass guitars....which use passive pups.

Anyway, he's the one with the bass recording problems....I'm just putting up some alternatives for him.
 
miroslav said:
Then I found the right position for the bass for my body/arms/fingers...and discovered that zone where you can really play the strings hard, but with a lot less clacking fret noise, and it's just a nice fat THUMP.
My main issue is as I said...I'm not a regular bass player, so after a bunch of passes, my left hand will start to get tired, and then I start to lose the string pressure, which can cause some fret buzz at the tails of notes....but I've improved on that a lot over the last couple of years, and now it's very negligible.

.
Click to expand...

I agree technique always comes first, I assumed he had that down. All instruments sounds comes from the playing, a bass player joined a band I was in and we really liked him, but we had to gently break it to him that light strings and low action was out. He sold his BC rich and went to a Fender with heavy gauge strings and sounded much better.
 
miroslav said:
Just saying that *I* prefer the DI route for my bass guitars....which use passive pups.

Anyway, he's the one with the bass recording problems....I'm just putting up some alternatives for him.
Click to expand...

Err? Active basses come with volume pot don't they? A VC on an active instrument will not cause the impedance/tonal issues that beset passives (which is top chop and does not matter so much on a bass) unless of course the electronics were designed by an idiot!

"D I" is a generic term used to describe the practice of connecting an instrument, any instrument with an electrical output, "directly" to a recording or amplifying device. Normally they take neg 10 or line levels down to mic level but not always. Iso-boxes with 1:1 transformers in them are often called "DI boxes". All sent to confuse the noob!

A thought occurs! The OP might be hitting the strings hard enough to clip the basses's electronics? Poor design if so but possible.
Dave.
 
Can you turn off the active aspect of the bass and play passively?
That'd be a worthwhile experiment if you can do it.
What sort of strings are you using? Sheathed, flat & half round are less noisome than round wounds.
Turn down, play evenly and remember you don't need a hot signal in digital recording.
I have a passive bass & ,when I can, I split the signal with 1 line going DI (through the very excellent Behringer BDI21 - super cheap & super) as well as micing a massive etone speaker from my Marshall bass amp.
When I can't do that I just use the Behri.
Fretting accurately is very important & doesn't require hard playing.
Experiment with where you strike the strings - that'll make quite a difference - hard pick, felt pick, thumb, fingers all make a difference.
If you go DI the buzz should be less evident and in a mix you can EQ a few of those things away.
It's also important to remember that a great sounding bass solo'd may well sound awful in the mix and visa versa.
 
Do you have the same issues plugged into an amp? It could also be action, pickup height, technique or a combination of the 3. I used to get a lot of clank from my bass and it was due to the pickups being too high, the action being to high, and me playing too damn hard.
 
+1 for the dbx 160 comments they're great on bass. but for your application, and simplicity of patching, I would suggest a dbx 286.
 
Judging from all the input so far, I know for sure that being a guitar player, my bass technique sucks. And I do record with a very hot signal. I haven't tried recording yet and applying all this advice, but hopefully tomorrow ill get some time. The strings that are on the bass are what came on the bass when I bought it. They are round wound.
I play tuned down a whole step using 9 to 42 gauge dean markley strings on my guitar so I can have a very light touch when I play. So when I strap on a bass,..... You get the idea. Hard to play and record metal playing softly and smoothly and without emotion.
 
minipops said:
Judging from all the input so far, I know for sure that being a guitar player, my bass technique sucks. And I do record with a very hot signal. I haven't tried recording yet and applying all this advice, but hopefully tomorrow ill get some time. The strings that are on the bass are what came on the bass when I bought it. They are round wound.
I play tuned down a whole step using 9 to 42 gauge dean markley strings on my guitar so I can have a very light touch when I play. So when I strap on a bass,..... You get the idea. Hard to play and record metal playing softly and smoothly and without emotion.
Click to expand...

Ah you want to do metal. Please shit can those strings then. Pro steels my friend, it will take a bass from zero presence to clang in seconds.

I present this video for evidence and he was using new sets for both demonstrations. Really though new strings are a good idea if your using factory strings that are who knows how old.

Bass String Comparison: Steel vs. Nickel plated Steel - YouTube
 
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