Recording a band in a garage...

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xav295

New member
Hello everyone!

I m studying music, and i have been asked how would i record music in a certain situation, disposing of loooots of stuff.
I have a few ideas, but to be honest i never had to record a band, so i'd like to know what do you think about it :)
Firstable, I have to record an electric guitar, and acoustic one, drums, a keyboard, a bass guitar and vocals.
I have to record in a garage, the problem of the garage is that the quality of the performance you'll record as good as if you were recording in a studio ;)
I have my recording station, a Yamaha AW1600, does its job, 8 inputs, 40Gb of memory, nice loops effects, a Pitch Fix tool ...
Microphones (of course they are not real microphones, in this situation i only know what type of mics i can use)
-3 condenser mic
-2 bass drum mics
-3 dynamic mics
-1 PZM mic
It could be easy to just record the music using my microphones and then correcting the sound, adding effects using the recording station, but here comes the difficult part.
In the garage, there is a rolled up rug, a beer crate, a settee, some sheets and some shelves, and I have to use this stuff -_-

The genre of music i am recording is pop/rock.

Sounds funny doesn't it ;) Question is, how to use all i have, in order to get the best out of the performance being played.
How could i solve problems such as amp spill? room sound? vocal recording? acoustic guitar recording?

The good thing is that i have a nice selection of mics, but how to use them? there is the problem.
should i record the band collectively or individually?
How can i use a PZM mic? I know that i am supposed to fix it on a wall, but what to do with it ??
should I plug the electric guitar directly into the recording station or should I record it from it's amp?
Am i right to use the dynamics mics to record vocals, the condensers for the acoustic, bass drum mic for the drum?
Should i plug the keyboard in the recording station or record it using mics?

Do you think I can resolve the problem of the amp spill by putting a rug on the amp, and the microphones in between the speakers of the mic and the rug?
Can the sheets solve the problem of the vocal recording ? By putting the sheet in between the singer and the mic?
how can I reduce the problem of the room sound? I can't cover all wall with one rug, so it is difficult to stop the sound reflection in such an area... Can I use the PZM microphone in order to solve this problem?

Your help and advises are more than welcome!
Thanks in advance,
Xav295
 
I'm going to school for Audio Production/Engineering as well and I just have one thing to say about this question......Thank God I don't go to your school!

No offense intended of course ;)

This question is just silly because A) condenser, dynamic....etc SO GENERAL. A sm57 is a dynamic mic that could be used for a guitar cab, but then again, I have used some nice condensers on cabs too. B) why would you HAVE to use all the equipment? Sometimes less is better.

This just seems like a very silly and almost pointless exercise to me if you're trying to learn pro audio....

Regardless, (and sorry about that rant, lol) I would record everyone individually. I would also use the sheets and shelves to make makeshift bogos to isolate the sound so you can get a little more controlled environment. I probably would mic the amp of the guitar instead of going DI.... just some suggestions. But if my teacher gave me this question, I would slap them across the face :)
 
Wish I could get college credit for doing this. But anyways, first off, your hypothetical band might play very very differently if they are used to playing as an ensemble or if they are used to doing their part alone. It really alters the performance for some people to be recording along to a backing track or a click as opposed to actually interacting with the others. If it's just cookie cutter 'pop' music, chances are there won't be much need for interaction if they are well trained little robots, but some musicians get kind of wierd about it, or shy, if they don't have their buds jamming along with them they can hold back their delivery.

It would be much easier to do everything separately for obvious sound bleed reasons, but if they really want to record all together, this makes a huge difference in how to handle it. So is this band playing as a group? or like well trained hypothetical little pop music robots can they just do what they are told and track each part separately?
 
Captain Ego said:
It would be much easier to do everything separately for obvious sound bleed reasons, but if they really want to record all together, this makes a huge difference in how to handle it. So is this band playing as a group? or like well trained hypothetical little pop music robots can they just do what they are told and track each part separately?
Click to expand...

Hopefully separately, because (from my experience) most of the typical pop rock bands that play live always have a drummer who ALWAYS speeds up. Song starts at 120 bpm and ends at 170. lol
 
amen.

I know the guys I play with rock live, but as soon as they get in the 'studio' (a generous use of the word) it was take after take after take until finally I just do it myself. For some people, that simple repetative 4/4 rhythm part suddenly becomes difficult when sitting down with headphones on I guess. My buds are there to play live, but since I've started recording, I do most of the stuff by myself because studio playing is not like live playing at all.
 
xav295 said:
Hello everyone!

I m studying music, and i have been asked how would i record music in a certain situation, disposing of loooots of stuff.
I have a few ideas, but to be honest i never had to record a band, so i'd like to know what do you think about it :)
Firstable, I have to record an electric guitar, and acoustic one, drums, a keyboard, a bass guitar and vocals.
I have to record in a garage, the problem of the garage is that the quality of the performance you'll record as good as if you were recording in a studio ;)
I have my recording station, a Yamaha AW1600, does its job, 8 inputs, 40Gb of memory, nice loops effects, a Pitch Fix tool ...
Microphones (of course they are not real microphones, in this situation i only know what type of mics i can use)
-3 condenser mic
-2 bass drum mics
-3 dynamic mics
-1 PZM mic
Click to expand...

Since you're recording in a garage, I'd use the dynamics for as much as possible to eliminate the room.

The only place it seems you couldn't use dynamics is on overheads for drums.

Go direct for bass and keys.

Plan to use some EQ to give the vocal and acoustic guitar some air.

Rugs, sheets and shelves aren't going to do much for LF.
 
Just another possibility: If you could split them into a couple of different session, 1 session with the drums and anything you can get DI, then the other session where you layer on the vocals, accoustic, and guitar amp one by one over the backdrop of drum, bass, and synth. That way the poor drummer isn't all lonely playing his track first, and all the mics get their space.

uses for the furniture:
sheets: keep them warm when they are waiting for their turn
beer crate: keeps them occupied when they are waiting for their turn
shelf: put the empty cans on.

Actually big piles of blankets (or coats, or whatever) in corners does make a difference to the room sound, if you have enough blankets. I use it myself since I'm too poor for real sound treatment and I record in a basement/laundry room. I don't know so much about how a shelf could help your accoustics though.
 
Hey don't knock it till you try it. It helps my little concrete cell sound less harsh on the reflections, specifically from my guitar amp and voice, neither of which are very heavy on the low end. I have carpet, blankets draped around walls, old clothes, all sorts of stuff down there. It's either that or the lovely sound of concrete and drywall.

So yeah there's gremlins in my laundry, or maybe bedbugs or something but it's better than it was. The OP is doing a project of having to make do with a sub-par recording area, right? Well that's right up my ally (literally), knock it all you want until you have to deal with it, then blankets will be your friend.
 
Last edited:
Hey!
Thanks for all the replies :)
Cool thing about writing an essay and not to actually have a band to record, is that i can say that the guys paying are nice little robots and that they will be able to play their performance individually :) It is also true that i dont need to use everything i have in the garage, but if I do, the guy who will correct me will see that I actually tried to use everything I had in the best way I could, and he wil probably be happy. lol...
Can i stop sound reflection if i isolate the drum kit in the corner of the garage, put a shelves covered with sheets and the rug ?
Thans for your help everyone, it is really cool from you all :)
Do you think that recording a vocal using a condenser mic, is better than a dynamic mic considering the sound reflection of the room ?
I thought that the drums would be recorded with the acoustic guitar first, then with the electric one. Problem is, how can I record a drum and a guitar with that environment? obviously I can use the bass drum mic, put it in the kick drum. do you think that using two condenser mics, one situated one the left and one on the right of the drum kit, would be the best idea ?
I have to say that this subject it not fun at all ^^ but at the end, if you can't afford for studio time, it makes you think about how can you have a really good recording quality using just basic things.
 
phriq said:
I'm going to school for Audio Production/Engineering as well and I just have one thing to say about this question......Thank God I don't go to your school!

No offense intended of course ;)

This question is just silly because A) condenser, dynamic....etc SO GENERAL. A sm57 is a dynamic mic that could be used for a guitar cab, but then again, I have used some nice condensers on cabs too. B) why would you HAVE to use all the equipment? Sometimes less is better.

This just seems like a very silly and almost pointless exercise to me if you're trying to learn pro audio....

Regardless, (and sorry about that rant, lol) I would record everyone individually. I would also use the sheets and shelves to make makeshift bogos to isolate the sound so you can get a little more controlled environment. I probably would mic the amp of the guitar instead of going DI.... just some suggestions. But if my teacher gave me this question, I would slap them across the face :)
Click to expand...

Yeah I do agree that the subject is a bit stupid but I am onl in first year, the reaosn of this subject is to understand which mic to use in what kind of situation :)
 
phriq said:
I'm going to school for Audio Production/Engineering as well and I just have one thing to say about this question......Thank God I don't go to your school!

No offense intended of course ;)

This question is just silly because A) condenser, dynamic....etc SO GENERAL. A sm57 is a dynamic mic that could be used for a guitar cab, but then again, I have used some nice condensers on cabs too. B) why would you HAVE to use all the equipment? Sometimes less is better.

This just seems like a very silly and almost pointless exercise to me if you're trying to learn pro audio....

Regardless, (and sorry about that rant, lol) I would record everyone individually. I would also use the sheets and shelves to make makeshift bogos to isolate the sound so you can get a little more controlled environment. I probably would mic the amp of the guitar instead of going DI.... just some suggestions. But if my teacher gave me this question, I would slap them across the face :)
Click to expand...

Yeah I do agree that the subject is a bit stupid but I am onl in first year, the reaosn of this subject is to understand which mic to use in what kind of situation :)
 
xav295 said:
I have to record in a garage, the problem of the garage is that the quality of the performance you'll record as good as if you were recording in a studio ;)
Click to expand...

First off, and I mean this with the utmost respect: that part ain't gonna happen. Everybody's first recording has some huge gaping flaw or another, part of the process is the learning curve. So what I'm really saying is, I'm glad this is a theoretical assignment and not a practical assignment for you.

xav295 said:
Firstable, I have to record an electric guitar, and acoustic one, drums, a keyboard, a bass guitar and vocals.
...
I have my recording station, a Yamaha AW1600, does its job, 8 inputs, 40Gb of memory, nice loops effects, a Pitch Fix tool ...
Microphones (of course they are not real microphones, in this situation i only know what type of mics i can use)
-3 condenser mic
-2 bass drum mics
-3 dynamic mics
-1 PZM mic
It could be easy to just record the music using my microphones and then correcting the sound, adding effects using the recording station, but here comes the difficult part.
In the garage, there is a rolled up rug, a beer crate, a settee, some sheets and some shelves, and I have to use this stuff -_-

The genre of music i am recording is pop/rock.
Click to expand...

As was mentioned before, the gear list isn't really specific enough. Even assuming you don't know the properties of say, a Shure SM57 vs. a Sennhesier 441 (both dynamics), you do need to know other things, like pickup configuration (how directional is each mic, and in what way?), or how you can mount it (big differences between clip on a mic stand, clip-on mic for drums, and shockmount on a mic stand).

I'm going to assume they're all cardiod (read: directional) mics, except the PZM, which I assume is omnidirectional (I've only personally ever encountered PZMs that were).

Next, I'm also going to assume you have nothing not on the list (like a DI box or any adapters), and that all the musicians are bringing instruments and amplifiers (save the vocalist, who's just showing up). That assumption is conservative for the essay, but makes things a little trickier (the Yamaha appears only to have XLR or "microphone" inputs). I'm also going to assume that each mic can be conventionally mounted onto a conventional microphone stand (i.e., fixed boom, but adjustable in terms of height and angle): so mic placement isn't a huge issue, but you don't have special tools for that. Lastly, I'm going to assume you have a minimal playback system (i.e., 2 powered speakers plugged into the back of the Yamaha).

First, I'd unroll the rug and put it under the drums. Not so much for its acoustic properties, but because you don't want the drums sliding around mid-take.

I'd also place the drums along one of the longer walls, again not so much for acoustic reasons, but to make room for everything: since we don't have headphones for the band (or any other specialized playback), I suggest everybody gets to play at once.

Next, go across the garage and set up shop there (away from the drums). Put the settee (had to look that one up :) ) on its side, and if it can balance on the beer crate, do that. You want the cushions to be facing away from the drums, and hopefully at least as tall as the vocalist (the idea here being that the vocalist will sing into a mic in front of the settee). Then position the amps for guitar/keyboard/drums around the garage, relatively far from each other. Take your shelving and place them at a wide angle on the outside of each amp, so you're kind of facing the amp into a wide corner. The idea is that each amp is sort of being given it's own alcove to help promote a little isolation. You're not going to successfully isolate anything this way. That's not actually the point (you need to have everyone hear everything for the takes to make sense), you're actually trying to minimize bleed from the other instruments into the mics that will be on the amps. The sheets don't provide a whole lot of acoustic anything (unless you have like 50 of them), so leave them aside for now. Lastly, the acoustic guitar is kind of tricky for a full-band situation. If there's room behind the settee put him there (you're gonna want to re-do the vocals and acoustic anyway). If there's a window and it's a nice day, I might be tempted to put him outside the garage to try and get that take as a keeper.

Listening-wise, you need to bring your own headphones. You're gonna want to be listening to the recording as it's captured (to make sure there's no huge errors or anything).

Next, have each of the players with amps find "their tone" using the absolute minimum volume necessary to get the right sound. If they need a little drive/distortion to get the right sound it's okay, but the idea here is they need to get it as quietly as possible (to minimize your bleed).

Put 1 of the bass drum mics on the kick drum of the kit, and the PZM near the drummer's head. Place 1 of the condensers near the snare (the snare and the kick are generally the two most important parts of the percussion in pop/rock). Put the remaining dynamic mics each the remaining amps (i.e., keys and guitar). If you're acoustic guitar is outside, position 2 condensers on it, one pointed roughly at the soundhole and one pointed more toward the fretboard. Give the last condenser to the vocalist. At this point, all your mics are used up, and except the PZM, they're all about 3-18" away from their source. Place the microphones wherever the sources sound best to your ear: actually drop down and stick your head in the path of the sound waves. Don't get too far away from the sources, and be quick about it: you don't want to wear out your hearing for the day in the first 20 minutes.

These will be your bed tracks (and hopefully your final for the acoustic guitar). You want to make sure that the electric guitar, keyboardist, bassist, and drums are locked and that they're not bleeding too much (or failing that, the overall balance is good when recorded so you don't have to worry too much about bleed). You also want to make sure that the vocals aren't too audible in any of your takes (they shouldn't be since everything else is comparatively louder and the mics are nice and close).

When you've got your bed tracks (i.e., everything except vocals and maybe acoustic guitar), strike everything down and then rearrange your shelving so form a space roughly as big as a closet. Put the settee up on its side at one end and then drape the whole thing in sheets. Fold them so they're about as wide as a bath towel so you get lots of layers, and then layer them some more. The idea here is to minimize the room involvement on the vocalist. Have the vocalist stand in the middle of your shelf-closet and sing along to the tracks as he listens through your headphones. If you don't have headphones, keep the speakers at the minimal volume needed for the singer to hear what's going on. Use 2 microphones here: 1 dynamic and 1 condenser, and record them both at once. This should mean you've used up 10 of your 16 total tracks so far, so you've got 6 more tracks for any additional parts you might want (backup vocals, guitar solos, general weird sounds the band wants to add), which should be more than enough.

Then there's the tricky issue of mixing, but that's actually much longer to explain what to do if you don't know what all the dials and widgets are supposed to do (things like reverb, EQ, etc). Grab the manual for the Yamaha for a quick primer and take it from there for mixing.

That's more-or-less how I would approach this particular essay.


phriq said:
I would also use the sheets and shelves to make makeshift bogos to isolate the sound so you can get a little more controlled environment.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming you mean "go-bos" ("go-betweens" or "baffles"), but I just wanted to check to see if you've actually mistyped or not: I've never heard them called this and want to know if it's some regional slang I don't know about.
 
Moseph said:
I'm assuming you mean "go-bos" ("go-betweens" or "baffles"), but I just wanted to check to see if you've actually mistyped or not: I've never heard them called this and want to know if it's some regional slang I don't know about.
Click to expand...

Yeah Moseph, I meant gobos. I must have had a buy one get one sale on my mind. lol. my bad.
 
Hey Mospeh! thks a lot!
With all wrote me I have lots more work to do know :)
Just wondering why would you use a condenser and a dynamic while recording the vocals? Is it because of the environment? Because I thought that a condenser, would be enough.
The thing with that essay, is that I can basically choose the microphones I would like to use. As in I can use them to give an example. I took for instance the AKG C414 because I thought that it was a good idea to use a microphone that has 4 different patterns: figure-of-eight, cardioid, omnidirectional and hyper-cardioid. For the vocals I would set it as cardioid.
The Yamaha AW1600 has also jack inputs, so I thought that I could plug the bass into the recording station, and use two different mics for the electric guitar amp, I'll have a stereo quality, be able to pan the recording. Do you think this is a good idea or should I record the bass directly from the amp ?
Thank you for your previous post, it is really kind of you :)
 
Dynamics won't pick up as much room sound.

On an unrelated note, my very favorite vocal mic is a dynamic, and I have a very well-treated studio.
 
Captain Ego said:
amen.

I know the guys I play with rock live, but as soon as they get in the 'studio' (a generous use of the word) it was take after take after take until finally I just do it myself. For some people, that simple repetative 4/4 rhythm part suddenly becomes difficult when sitting down with headphones on I guess.
Click to expand...

It's comforting to know I am not the only person to run into this. I have encountered it mostly with lead players trying to record their rhythms.
 
Shawn777 said:
It's comforting to know I am not the only person to run into this. I have encountered it mostly with lead players trying to record their rhythms.
Click to expand...

Everybody I've ever recorded gets less talented when the red light comes on. I think that when you're looking for the "official" take critical listening gets a lot more critical.
 
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