recomendations for 2nd Mic Preamp

swelborn

New member
Or do I need one? I"m just starting to experiment with mid/side recording for acoustical guitar. I have the appropriate mics but only one mic pre which is Great River in a lunch box. There are the stock pre amps in my Fireface 800 interface which I'm sure does not match the quality of the GR. Any recommendations for a second pre? OR... maybe in this application it's not that big of a deal? For example, the GR pre on the mid mic and the Fireface pre on the side mic to bring in room ambience.
 
GRs are great. You shouldn't need any other pre. I guess if you want "color" or a tube pre you could make an argument for one, but it's not going to make any groundbreaking difference in recordings.
 
grace design m101 mono

Chameleon Labs 7602 MKII with X-MOD Option

Daking Mic Pre/EQ

Universal Audio SOLO/610SOLO/610

Focusrite ISA Two

Universal Audio 710 Twin-Finity


if you want to get into 500 series, there is a whole slew of those that are really nice.

in the low end,
i'd recommend:
True Systems P-Solo Ribbon
Daking Mic Pre One
Golden Age Pre-73 MKIII Mic/line Preamp

in the cheap, Studio Projects VTB1

and dont' forget about the FMR RNP
 
"GRs are great. You shouldn't need any other pre"

Mid/side mic technique requires two mics so I need two pres'. Since I have a GR thought I'd get something else for variety. One mic is a ribbon figure 8 for room ambience. Part of the question... is it that important for the preamp for the ambient side mic to equal the quality of the directional mic (GR in this case)
 
"GRs are great. You shouldn't need any other pre"

Mid/side mic technique requires two mics so I need two pres'. Since I have a GR thought I'd get something else for variety. One mic is a ribbon figure 8 for room ambience. Part of the question... is it that important for the preamp for the ambient side mic to equal the quality of the directional mic (GR in this case)

Oh, sorry, missed the M/S thing.
I have a GR and a Solo610. They make great compliments to one another. The 610 is dirtier sounding, great for DI bass as well, and provides nice contrast to the GR. I bought it for the bass DI and to dirty up vocals at the source/get some tubes into the chain, but it isn't noticeably better or worse than the GR just a bit darker/color. GR isn't pristine clean either, though, so maybe you'd want something pristine like the Grace.
 
further research ... now leaning towards the MP566 for a tube pre. Some reviews claim they're smoother, less muddy than 610s'. Wish I had time to build the kit but I'm anxious to get recording. Haven't seen any comparisons with that and the La Chappell 583 either. So MP566 it is most likely.
 
The 610 is great. Don't get too hung up on reviews. Many of those people don't know how to maximize gear and then complain when they don't sound like Elvis or the Beach Boys because they have a tube in their signal chain. Try to find samples of all of them online.
 
There are the stock pre amps in my Fireface 800 interface which I'm sure does not match the quality of the GR. .

I wonder if the stock pre's are fine for clean. Havent you tried them very often?
A lot of stock preamps are pretty decent.

If you post some clips through A and B and let us vote, it might help you choose if the pre is better than the stock interface pre.

I almost tried a GR several times, its a mono unit that I get in the cart, $1150 new and $850 used, they just never get down to $450 it seems or even $550. Is it better than the Tone Beast?

I been jonesing for a LA610 (really would like to try the 6176 but $$$) LA610 get dogged more than 50% the time it seems but the design seems perfect.? weird..
 
I stumbled on a EL9 (emperical labs)...I bought it to try out.

Preamp and Distressor/FatsoSaturation Compressor for $1000. 6 months no payments or interest.... 7 Day return policy.
You might read up on that one. I was impressed with all the users comments and getting a transformer pre with a comp-mojo.
$1600 new, most used around $1200.

I got serial# 520. I'll do a review soon and see if I end up selling other crap to buy it if its a keeper.
 
Putting a bunch of $$$ into preamps seems like a waste to me. I did sound on sound's blind test of pres and couldn't tell the difference between an API and an ART. With their panel doing a blind test the ART actually outperformed all sorts of pres costing 2, 3 and 4 times as much.

I have an RNP, a meek TwinQ, an Audient ASP008, and a Mackie 1604VLZ from 1992. You would think the Mackie gets destroyed by the others. Nope. It sounds different (just as the twinQ sounds different than the ASP008) but not lower quality necessarily.
 
Putting a bunch of $$$ into preamps seems like a waste to me.

Yeah, kinda, but sometimes there's good reason. E.g. my focusrite pres wouldn't allow input/output gain staging and sounded bad when turning the gain up to power low output mics like ribbons. That's mainly why I bought a good one. So, there are reasons to own them. But in general, you won't hear a huge difference in 1 on 1 comparisons. It's more about over an entire track (10+ tracks) where you can hear the difference and if you need specific functionality.
 
Putting a bunch of $$$ into preamps seems like a waste to me. I did sound on sound's blind test of pres and couldn't tell the difference between an API and an ART. With their panel doing a blind test the ART actually outperformed all sorts of pres costing 2, 3 and 4 times as much.

I have an RNP, a meek TwinQ, an Audient ASP008, and a Mackie 1604VLZ from 1992. You would think the Mackie gets destroyed by the others. Nope. It sounds different (just as the twinQ sounds different than the ASP008) but not lower quality necessarily.

very true to all my comparisons too and love the SOS shootout, really well done.
i even bought the ART MPA they used with the other tubes 6072? with the blue lights. it sounded great, had some really nice ability like the impedance knob.

through my comparisons though i was lead to the compressors doing the real dirt.....it wasnt the preamp.

actually the Mackie Board did fine in the SOS shootout too hahaa...up there with some big $$$ preamps...but a board you get what? 12 or 14 of them!!

I love the JoeMeek old stuff but the new was plastic sounding to me, the transformer IN/OUT button is a great idea but I couldnt tell the difference at all hardly. The old Joe Meek stuff has some personality but I think again its the compressor and/or eq.

theres a jones for the MPA and VLA, they get great praise but they look cool and have the right functions covered. Not too complex and yet a few nice things on the panel, and really for 2 channels of PreGain and Comp at $575 thats hard to beat. imo.

I went through a bunch of pre's last year and the difference became ZERO when I went straight in to my interface and added a PreAmp and LA2A VST strip.... once the drums started it wasnt even important.

The "magic gear" that makes peoples track sound like a mastered #1 Billboard recording immediately, by just plugging a Mic in doesnt exist it seems, thats why so many buy Neumann U87's and then are let down or even a $2000 mic pre.

McCartney did vocals with a SM57, O.A.R top Billboard with MXL990, Stevie Wonder RE20...etc..etc.. these are not $2000 mics, Ill guess preamps are the same deal.

I do understand, or my perspective , is yeah a U87>Neve 1073> 1176/LA2A works really well and is consistant (and expensive as hell) but the chain works so a lot of people use it....just like slapping a SM57 on a guitar amp, it works really well for some reason? we can try three thousand different flavors but the old Ketchup and Fries works well, the Sauerkraut on the Rueben works.

swellborn, you have the GR which is Neve-ish as I read it. you might want to try some clean-machines pre's to widen the ability. ..or you find out the GR does it all and get a second GR for dual mode.
 
CoolCat, you'll have to clue me in on what "clean machines pres'" are. In any case, I've got a Sound Skulpture MP566 on the way. Just felt I had to have one tube pre. Might be good for bass tracking eh?
 
..." turning the gain up to power low output mics like ribbons"

When I got my apex 205 I was trying to test it out on my layla 3g and wasn't getting but -60 hospital flat line : ) So, I was putting all that away and I decided to grab my radio shack XLR to 1/4" MIC cord. Plugged it into my Akai gx-600db and was getting good level on semi quiet source. - 80 per-cent on the gain. There's also output gain on the line out, so options to drive another input. Many recording amps are meant to give you a good level with the dynamic MICs. Doesn't mean they will sound good, though : )
 
Never done any MS recording (would love to, too late now) but I had a bit of a working knowledge of the principles* but had a read up on Goog.

Since stereo recording is perforce a 'distant' technique (otherwise you end up with room sized guitars!) I doubt most pre amps would get driven hard enough to generate much 'attitude'? That is supposing of course that you WANT it!

The MID signal is the mono resultant and so it might be as well to keep that as 'clean' as possible putting a 'characterful' pre in the ambient SIDE feed?

*The algebra of the system is exactly the same as for Zenith GE stereo radio coding (and by extension, NTSC and PAL TV colour).

Dave.
 
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