RecordingMaster
A Sarcastic Statement
Wait...isn't that clownfuckery?
Random idea regarding tracking vocals WITHOUT headphone bleed
- Thread starter Johnny Don't!
- Start date
Wait...isn't that clownfuckery?
Since when is using good technique clownfuckery?
RecordingMaster
A Sarcastic Statement
Sigh.
The guy said "sonic fuckery" and you said "yes, this ^" and I was, ya know ...being a smart ass and giving a nod to the term you seemed to have coined on here.
RecordingMaster
A Sarcastic Statement
I'm here all week.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Naaaa...BSG isn't like that. It was a legit point/question.
Your perspective was also good....but I think the reality is that with vocals, you DO adjust the source level as you change distance from the mic (what Jay was getting at about vocal mic technique)...unlike setting a mic for most stationary sources with steady-level output.
Brian Miller
New member
Moving closer to the mic for soft passages and further away for loud is proper mic technique, on stage and in the studio. This is what untrained vocalists *don't"* do and it creates headaches for engineers who have to find one set gain level for the wide range of unpredictable volume fluctuations.
If you have a song where the soft and loud passages are reasonably separate, you can track the vocals in two different takes, with different gain input and distance from the mic accordingly. I have used this to great effect.
If however the vocals go from loud to soft within verses or mid sentence, the vocalist should be riding the mic distance plus you might consider a conservative compressor on the way in (think Regina Spektor).
If you have a song where the soft and loud passages are reasonably separate, you can track the vocals in two different takes, with different gain input and distance from the mic accordingly. I have used this to great effect.
If however the vocals go from loud to soft within verses or mid sentence, the vocalist should be riding the mic distance plus you might consider a conservative compressor on the way in (think Regina Spektor).
Johnny Don't!
New member
Wow! Many great responses, as I expected. I should have been a bit clearer in my original post: the headphone bleed occurs when I take one can off my ear, which I do about 50% of the time I'm tracking, depending on the style of music & vocal.
I'm pretty surprised to see cafehonda's response; evidently he kicks ALL vocalists out of his studio, at least the ones who know what they're doing. Haha. (I jest, I jest.) My voice is EXTREMELY dynamic, so I go from a soft near-whisper to belting loud enough to destroy ribbon mics within the same take; hence the need for fairly drastic mic technique. If I *didn't* do this, THEN I'd be creating a nightmare for the engineer.
So to clarify: I was interested in the bone-conduction tech because it allows the ears to remain open, which would provide the vocalist the ability to hear him/herself in the room/booth while simultaneously hearing the mix. Like I said above, I record vocals with one ear off about 50% of the time; the other 50% of the time I want to hear the sound of the mic & pre (and compressor, if there's one in the chain; with me, I track 95% of my vox through a API 512A into a EL-8 Distressor) and how they're reacting to my voice.
The main reason I want to eliminate any/all headphone bleed is due to how my vocals are processed/mixed when I'm working on my own material; there tends to be 2-3 compressors on my vocal during mixing and that really makes any bleed jump out and grab the effects on the vocal, which isn't pretty (in most cases).
Really appreciate all the responses, especially the funny ones. It's like Dave Chappelle said: musicians & comedians hang out a lot, because timing is important in both music & comedy...and musicians think they're funny. Hahaha.
I'm pretty surprised to see cafehonda's response; evidently he kicks ALL vocalists out of his studio, at least the ones who know what they're doing. Haha. (I jest, I jest.) My voice is EXTREMELY dynamic, so I go from a soft near-whisper to belting loud enough to destroy ribbon mics within the same take; hence the need for fairly drastic mic technique. If I *didn't* do this, THEN I'd be creating a nightmare for the engineer.
So to clarify: I was interested in the bone-conduction tech because it allows the ears to remain open, which would provide the vocalist the ability to hear him/herself in the room/booth while simultaneously hearing the mix. Like I said above, I record vocals with one ear off about 50% of the time; the other 50% of the time I want to hear the sound of the mic & pre (and compressor, if there's one in the chain; with me, I track 95% of my vox through a API 512A into a EL-8 Distressor) and how they're reacting to my voice.
The main reason I want to eliminate any/all headphone bleed is due to how my vocals are processed/mixed when I'm working on my own material; there tends to be 2-3 compressors on my vocal during mixing and that really makes any bleed jump out and grab the effects on the vocal, which isn't pretty (in most cases).
Really appreciate all the responses, especially the funny ones. It's like Dave Chappelle said: musicians & comedians hang out a lot, because timing is important in both music & comedy...and musicians think they're funny. Hahaha.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
This. Or use IEMs. If you pull one out the SPL is so low it will hardly be picked up by the mic. Or put a short delay, something like 30-50ms, on your voice in the monitor mix.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
It's a differerent sound.
Some singers find the headphone voice unnatural/weird, and they have a harder time staying in pitch. With one ear open, they can hear their voice how they normally do...and still hear the cue mix in the other ear with the phones.
It's actually pretty common for singers to do that.
RawDepth
New member
Apparently my headphones sound more natural than the OP's because I rather like my "headphone voice". I find it easy to stay on pitch with them on. But then, I don't do any processing on-the-way-in either. Maybe that has something to do with it.
Anyway, it still comes down to simple physics...you can't have an open speaker 4 inches from the mic and expect the mic not to pick it up. This should be a quick and easy solve, as many have already offered.
Anyway, it still comes down to simple physics...you can't have an open speaker 4 inches from the mic and expect the mic not to pick it up. This should be a quick and easy solve, as many have already offered.
Farview
Well-known member
It has nothing to do with the headphone mix, it has everything to do with the singer. It takes some people a long time to be able to hear themselves in stage monitors, headphones is yet another hurdle. I'm convinced that some people's brains simply don't recognize their voice coming from these other places. That is why a singer keeps asking for more monitor when it is blowing the heads off of everyone else on stage.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Yup....
I had this female singer doing some tracks not too long ago...and she keeps asking me to turn up her headphone mix.
Now I set it up where I normally have it....but I turn them up....she says louder....I turn them up some more....she says she still can't hear herself, meanwhile I'm looking at where the volume knob is and thinking maybe the headphones went bad or something.
Then I walk over and put her headphones on and .....BAM!!!....it was freaking screaming loud, and she's telling me she can't hear herself.
She was a real loud singer, had that screamimng live stage type of delivery...so she was basiclaly drowning out the headphone mix with her own singing being too loud for her to hear the headphone mix.
She just wasn't able to seperate out her actual singing...from her vocal in the phones.
I had this female singer doing some tracks not too long ago...and she keeps asking me to turn up her headphone mix.
Now I set it up where I normally have it....but I turn them up....she says louder....I turn them up some more....she says she still can't hear herself, meanwhile I'm looking at where the volume knob is and thinking maybe the headphones went bad or something.
Then I walk over and put her headphones on and .....BAM!!!....it was freaking screaming loud, and she's telling me she can't hear herself.
She was a real loud singer, had that screamimng live stage type of delivery...so she was basiclaly drowning out the headphone mix with her own singing being too loud for her to hear the headphone mix.
She just wasn't able to seperate out her actual singing...from her vocal in the phones.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
My theory about vocal monitoring is that people generally need to hear their voice in the monitors loud enough to overcome natural bone conduction. Also, since we spend so much time indoors we are conditioned to expect some reflection off nearby walls, floors and ceilings. A little slapback delay or short reverb can simulate that and make it easier for a vocalist to perceive their own voice.