Question for the pros

smellyfuzz

New member
Like many other homers, I know what my compressor is suppose to do.
I have researched settings & what each control does,
but have little luck using it or even how to experiment with it.

If figured when I bought it, I would eventually get the hang of it.
I was wrong. I find myself still lost.

I have had a problem with my vocals sounding harsh,
and it seemed that no matter where I put the threshold, gain, gate,
or ratio, I still had a bad vocal track.
I started feeling like I might have wasted all that money on vocal lessons.

Behold, in my trusty recording book
(Practical Recording Techniques by Bruce & Jenny Bartlett)
I found a Lead vocal compressor setting (2:1 ratio, -5 dB threshold,
no mention of any other controls though).

BIG DIFFERENCE! SMOOTH VOCALS! EVEN DURING LOUD PASSAGES!

SO........................................................................................

You big wigs...................................

Instead of tell us stupid homers what each button or nob will do,
I ask, if thou could tell us all where the controls can be put for some of
the common instruments?

In middle September, I will be recording me & my band, at my home.
I will be micing up a drum set & laying it down on 2 Tracks.
I could use suggestions on where to put my compressor controls
for the whole drum set.

SEAN
 
Ok, Im no pro...maybe a Professional Newbie....but I know you cant peg down certain settings of cression....while that 2:1 with 5db thresh might have worked for you, I can guarantee if you put someone else up to that same mic, odds are youd need a different setting...some people can track vocals without compression...some need 4:1, 5:1, up to 10:1.....hell 2:1 aint a whole lot of compression....its gonna depend on the vocalists mic technique, how dynamic his voice is, etc....on instruments, again mic positioning is gonna factor in as well as the musicians playing style...

with that said, the pros can probably give you some guidelines on what to look for and listen for and how to apply to to what settings you are gonna need...compression is a tool...you have to listen to a track without it, see a problem , and know WHY you are patching that compressor inbefore you use it oryou will seriously hurt your recordings......

I know you said you know what each setting does, but obviously you dont....you are gonna have to use your ears and HEAR what the settings are doing as you play with a track....my first rule is that the best compression is no compression....2nd rule is very little compression is the next best thing....

This is coming from someone who LOVES compression.....
 
Compression realy isnt a simple processor at all.

I dont want to toot my own horn but read the article and listen to the samples as well as read Ed's article.
Also go to the drum mixing article and listen to the compression samples on the kit there.

Specificly to your Vocal problem.........
Gidge realy put it well with the problematic usefull settings to a compressor per instrument and vocals as each track has its needs and worse..every compressor is different.

But let me try and take you through a typical session and understand the problems and you will know at least when you are doing damage more then helping.


Set your Threshold to 0dB and the ratio to a nice and low 2:1 or 2.5:1.
Now set the attack time to an area of 10ms and release to about 150ms and gain to still be at 0dB.
If you have then use the soft knee on vocals. If you dont understand why soft knee then go back and read the articles.

Asumming you know how to hook it up to the track and you understand the issue of input and output gain...
play the track....listen carefully ! and slowlllllyyyyyyyyy reduce the Threshold until you notice the compressor starting to work.
If you have meters on your compressor then you will see when the compressor is starting to take place and when not.
A typical threshold setting will be around -5 to -20dB.

You dont want the compressor to compress all the time. You want it to control peaks or reduce the difference between the loudest peaks and the average level. So as you ease the Threshold make sure you are not making the compressor kick in all the time.
A gentle compression would be kicking in only at the loudest parts of your track at a small ratio.

At this stage, use the Bypass button. Listen to the difference between compressed and not. Make sure to turn up the gain if needed on the compressor to make sure the levels are balanced between before and after.
If you need more compression use the ratio and make it a bit higher slowly untill you like what you hear.

Warning signs:

* High freq's sound pinched ? - not good
* Sound is dull and lifeless? - not good
* Hear pumping /breathing? - not good
* Low end is rolled off? - not good
* Losing attack of instument or articulation of text - not good

You can solve some of those problems.
Breathing/pumpping - try to increase the release time or rasing
the threshold.

Losing attack etc... - try increasing attack or lower the ratio

Losing high freq's or low end rolled off - try to increase the threshold or reduce the ratio.

The reason Bruce Barletts settings are not damaging your vocals as they are light settings. It could be that the compressor is not even kicking in at all or only at a place or two. That should give you some thought. But understand that it is common to compress vocals harder as well.
 
Hell, I just tracked vocal part tonight where I used a ADK TC51 to a Oram MWS pre to a Drawmer 1960 tube compressor to an Alesis XT 20 with Monster Studio Pro 1000 from the mic to pre and from pre to compressor, and StudioLink 500 from the compressor to the deck. At the peaks, I had around 6 or 7 dB of compression TO TAPE. You would NOT be able to hear it. The Drawmer is that good! The Oram is THAT good! The ADK on this guys voice is THAT good! The Monster cable is THAT good! I AM THAT GOOD! ;)

But, I have tried a similar setup on other singers where is sounded like crap! Oh well.......I changed the set up on them and got a better sound. Changed the mic or the pre or the compressor (NEVER the wire! Monster rocks the world of wire right now! :)) That is the way of things in recording.

smellyfuzz. The difference between you and me is that I can almost ALWAYS, regardless of the singer and the gear, find a way to make the track sound pretty good to tape. I NEVER do it the same way twice! At mix time, I don't need a whole lot of compression to make the vocal fit nicely in the mix. It is the difference between talent and experience and someone who doesn't spend the time at the controls to figure out what will work good in almost every situation.

I hope your "text book" compressor settings work for a long time to come for you. I will continue to "experiment" and find something cool every time I record a vocal and mix it thank you. People will continue to pay me for that too! :D

Ed
 
Im not professional anymore, I worked as a studio tech in the late 80's early 90's is that close enough?
The problem might not be the compressor, it may be your mic and or your singing. My friend Jim would always have me come into his recording sessions and help the engineers with the set up since usually I got to be the producer (friends are cheap). The singer for the band had a great voice, he even had taken lessons from the same guy Jeff Tate had. The biggest problem was though he could sing, he did not know how to use a studio mic. A SM58 is very different than lets say a U87 is, he need to change his recording style to be different than his live performance, i.e. your mic is not to have contact with your teeth. Try standing a little farther back and sing smoother, it takes practice to make it right not equipment. I always remind myself that my equipment isnt supposed to fix my inadequacies but rather enhance my abilities.

Peace,
Dennis
 
Bruce.... Thanks, I think it will be useful.


Gidge... The reason I need compression on my voice is because it is very dynamic
& I'm getting a harsh, loud, & soft vox tracks.

Also, I never stated that I knew what the controls did,
only that I've no luck with them.


Shailat... Thanks so much for the info. I will try your method soon.


Sonusman.... Why the fucking slam. I've already admitted my ignorance of the subject....

I am in no way an engineer & therefore am seeking knowledge,
not to be looked down upon.

I'm sure I could criticize you easily on your singing technic.

Oh yea, MONSTER CABLE SUCKS! It's not even consistent from grade to grade.
Sometimes it is too harsh on top & other times it too fucking soft on the highs.
Either way the fucking bass is not accurate at all, just boomy.
If you knew anything at all about cabling at all, you would know that as far as
"High End" cables, they are at near bottom & would have never pick that
piece of shit Monster Cable.


Atomictoyz... I do stand back, about 8 inches, but thanks.


Ametth... He makes me want to blow chunks!
 
Ok, if I came off like an asshole, I didnt mean to....the information in my above post stands, but any attitude was not intended.....

Also, dynamic is not bad....use as much vocal technique as you can, backing up during loud passages and coming in for softer....use the compressor just to catch wild peaks for tracking.....when mixing, if you need more to help it "sit in the mix", use Shailats advice on setting it.....

learning to set a compressor really is a matter of sitting down with one track at a time and fiddling the dials and see what different settings do and how they affect the track...do this with several types of tracks....while youll never, ever be as good as Sonusman:rolleyes: , practice makes perfect.....and you can gain experience on him as he is on the floor with a coronary after hearing that Monster Cable remark.....
 
Well smellyfuzz, since I coated the outside of the connectors on that Moster cable, it sure sounds MUCH better than before! It is "special" stuff I paid $40 for a little bottle of. Boy, it sure made a difference. Green ink! Made everything through it sound like lettuce!

Ed
 
You say your singing is 'very dynamic', if it really is that drastic, going from whispers to screams for example, you might need to do the two parts seperately, using different settings for each.
 
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