Pseudo m/s teqnique???

formerlyfzfile

formerlyfzfile

New member
I was just reading through on of my old Tape Op issued on the can last night and read an artticle about using m/s matrix recording in unconventional ways.

I have a figure 8 mic but have no idea how to set up a a matrix to split the signal.

So I figured that i could use three mics on an amp to get similar results.

By putting a mic in front of the speaker (as you normally would) and another mic facing the back of the speaker cone, this would simulate the "out-of-phase - ness" of the fig 8 mic put through an m/s matrix, yes.

Because the two mics would be out of phase. ?

I tried this with a vocal run into the pre and split out of the pre with one goind direct to track 3 and then the other going to my amp (with judicious spring reverb) and the two mics run to tracks 1 and 2, panned hard left and right.

It sounds kinda cool, but is this the same thing??????

What do you need for an m/s matrix???

-mike
 
I believe M/S is just parallel while X/Y is perpendicular.

Here is a mic mount adjustable for both, it is in X/Y position here.
ryc-msxy-mt.gif
 
No, it is not the same thing. An M/S pair has the fig.8 mic pointing sideways, and the cardioid pointing forward. The 'matrix' consists of 3 channels on a mixing board (real, or virtual) set up as follows:
The mid mic is panned center,
the side (fig.8) mic is split into 2 channels, panned left and right, and one of them has its polarity reversed* (i.e. phase 180 degrees out).
The 2 mics shoud be as physically close as you can make them, and the channels of the matrix control the amount of stereo spread - the more you raise the 2 side channels (which should always be reased/lowered together) the wider the stereo spread. Usually you want them no higher than 3db below the mid mic, which should give you the best stereo image.

Scott

* NOTE: if you don't have a polarity (or "phase") switch on your mixer, you can make a 'Y' cable for the side mic, and reverse the connections to pins 2 and 3 on one of the male XLR plugs.
 
Is that because of the distance??

I mean, the phase of the "rear" mic WOULD be out of phase with the front mic, yes?

But if I understand correctly... it does not create the same effect becuse using a figure 8 mic with the m/s technique, the "perspective" of both side signals is identical..... whereas micing the front and back of the amp captures 2 totally different perspectives (for lack of a better word coming to mind) of the sound source.

Am I understanding this???

-mike
 
More or less - The M/S technique is a version of single-point stereo; the 2 side signals are electrically identical except their polarity - if you collapse them to mono they will disappear completely. What you're describing may (or may not, depending on a variety of factors) be more-or-less out of phase, but will never be electrically identical & of opposite polarity.

Scott
 
without a M/S Matrix converter can the same thing be accomplished using the same mic config, (ie Fig 8 and Cardioid), and then just copying the Fig 8 mic track so that there are two of them, panning them hard left and right and reversing the polarity on one of them? This is dead easy to do in Sonar (and probably every other digital program).
 
If you check my first reply, that's exactly what (I thought) I said. It doesn't matter if you do it on an analog console, a digital console or within a computer. The net result is the same. Try it, you'll like it!

Scott
 
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