Portable Recording Rig - 16 channels - What am I missing?

timkroeger

Custom Title User
Hey there,

I'm planning to build a basement studio in the long run, but since I won't have a basement for the next 1.5 years, there's no way I will be able to track a band. There may be some mixing contests coming along here at HR but I can improve in mixing only, and still won't have any experience in tracking when I start with the basement studio. So I was thinking, I could visit bands in their rehearsal rooms where they feel at home and comfortable, do some on-the-fly / makeshift acoustic improvements, listen to a few songs, decide on how to record and track happily away.

I have the Recording Engineer's Handbook and the Mixing Engineer's Handbook for reference (along with a few other Books like Mastering Audio: The Art and the Science, Master Handbook of Acoustics, Home Recording Studio: Build it like the Pros and the Tape Op books for the "vibe"). The ME's handbook helped me improve my mixing skills already so I guess the RE's handbook will help me get a grip on tracking, mic positioning and stuff. I read Harvey Gerst's big mic thread, and follow almost every thread that deals with some aspects of tracking and mixing here at HR. I have done some hands on tracking a few years ago with much lesser knowledge than I have now and I feel I really need to get my hands dirty now.

Now, there's some gear I already have, and some which I plan on buying next month and I'd like to know what you think of all this and if I might be missing something (gear or possible issues or whatever).

I'll record digitally and I planned on buying an M-Audio Profire 2626 which would allow me to record 8 channels simultaneously. I can connect my ancient M-Audio Octane 8 channel preamp via ADAT to it and then record 16 channels at 24bit/48kHz which is enough for me. I like the Delta 1010 I have for my desktop and I don't want to improve the mobile rig and go with a much pricier interface. A better interface will be on my list for my desktop DAW when the basement studio takes off. The Profire then goes via Firewire into my 13" MacBook Pro. The 2.53 GHz Core 2 Duo / 4GB RAM should be enough for Reaper, I think. Outputs go into the Behringer Headphone Amp for distribution and direct to my tracking headphones. The MacBook has a 240GB harddisk which I will save the projects to and then move them to a USB drive for safe storage and transfer to my mixing desktop at home. Of course I need mics and mic stands and cabling.

What I Have:
  • MacBook Pro + Reaper
  • M-Audio Octane 8-channel preamp
  • Behringer Headphone Amp
  • AKG C3000 (from the 90s I think)
  • EV RE-20
  • Shure SM7B
  • Shure SM57
  • 2x Oktava MK012 (cardioid and omni capsules)

What I (think I) need and plan on buying next month:

The bands I'll be recording will supposedly consist of acoustic drums, vocals, acoustic and electric guitar, electric bass, maybe acoustic bass, the odd synth/keyboard. I want to keep an open mind and be prepared in case I'll need to capture some brass instruments, too. Basically I want to start out somewhat metal/rock/country focused and wander into the blues/jazz territory and anything else that may be called music in the widest sense later on. Where I live, it will be easiest to find some pop rock / alternative rock group to talk to.

I don't have a giant portfolio or something so I guess my rates will be quite low or money-back if it doesn't work out. Maybe there is not much interest but maybe I can just get some practise out of it.

So, what am I missing? What didn't I think of?

Cheers
Tim
 
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What I'd try and use where (preference descending from left to right):

  • Vocals: Baby Bottle, SM7B, RE-20, C3000, MK012, SM57
  • BD: RE-20, D-112, t.bone BD mic
  • Snare: SM57
  • Overheads: 2x MK012 cardioid
  • Toms: t.bone cheapo clip ons, RE-20 on stand tom
  • Electric Guitars: SM7B, SM57, C3000
  • Acoustic Guitars: MK012 omni / cardioid, C3000
  • Electric Bass: Direct, RE-20
  • Acoustic Bass: Baby Bottle, MK012
  • Room sound: MK012 omni

I plan on upgrading some mics and expanding the collection over the next 1.5 years to improve the sound (e.g. tom mics) or have different options for a specific purpose (e.g. vocals or guitars).

  • a few Sennheiser E604 for Toms
  • Sennheiser E906 for Electric Guitars / Snare
  • Blue Dragonfly for Vocals / Guitars
  • AKG C414XLII for Vocals / Guitars and whatnot

This might seem a bit much but I see it as a long term investment into my recording hobby. Just felt that I needed to elaborate a little on what I thought I would achieve with what type of mic. I've heard different things about the C414. Some praise it, some think it's overrated. What do you think?

Cheers
Tim
 
If you're going to record bands in their rehearsal spaces you probably don't have time to track everything separately, so you'll need to record them live. The best way to do that is to let them keep their rehearsal setup unaltered rather than try to get them all monitoring through your system. To do that you'll need a mic splitter. Put the splitter between their inputs and rehearsal sound system, with the other output to your system. They do their thing as normal, you do yours without interfering with their routine. There will be bleed in all the mics, which is an educational tracking and mixing challenge.
 
So, what am I missing? What didn't I think of?

Cheers
Tim
This is a broad question because there are so many variables. Do the band or band have their own FOH or monitor sound techs?
Do they have their own mixers?
Are you going to rent them yours?

Focus on their stage plots and what they have/need for equipment. Getting that straight is more important than recording them. Once you get it working, a stereo feed should be decent but for post processing you'll want separate tracks for each instr/voice. Ease into it and good luck.
 
If you're going to record bands in their rehearsal spaces you probably don't have time to track everything separately, so you'll need to record them live. The best way to do that is to let them keep their rehearsal setup unaltered rather than try to get them all monitoring through your system. To do that you'll need a mic splitter. Put the splitter between their inputs and rehearsal sound system, with the other output to your system. They do their thing as normal, you do yours without interfering with their routine. There will be bleed in all the mics, which is an educational tracking and mixing challenge.

I agree, that would be a challenge. Good advice with the mic splitter; I might be able to return the vocals at line level from the interface into their mixer but that would alter their rehearsal setup. I think it's good to have several options of how to record. That would largely depend on what the band wants and what they feel comfortable with. Solid advice not interfering with their routine. Recording sessions would be at the weekend, not just a few hours in the evening after work, so I guess there would be time to track separately. Again, that might just depend on the band's preferences, how much time they can spend and what they want to achieve. They'd need to have a good drummer for tracking everything at once. Trying to overdub drums with all the bleed from the other instruments and vocals might prove difficult.
 
This is a broad question because there are so many variables. Do the band or band have their own FOH or monitor sound techs?
Do they have their own mixers?
Are you going to rent them yours?

Focus on their stage plots and what they have/need for equipment. Getting that straight is more important than recording them. Once you get it working, a stereo feed should be decent but for post processing you'll want separate tracks for each instr/voice. Ease into it and good luck.

Yeah, I know, definitely a broad question, so I'll try and answer yours first ;) Own FOH or monitor sound techs? I don't think so. I'd think, if they already have their own techs, they'd more likely go to a studio with some track record (pun intended) and not go the rehearsal / mobile rig route.

Own mixers? Possibly but I'd figure nothing fancy. We're still talking rehearsal not live gig, right? I don't think I'm the live sound guy. Live sound and recording - at least for me - don't mix well. Too much to handle simultaneously; a good live sound and good recording may not be a one man job. Also for live sound you need a lot more experience, because you can't tweak away as long as you like.

Rent them my mixer? No, I don't have a live / monitor mixer and my inline console is not portable (don't mention the day I'll need to move...). I figure they'll need at least some rehearsal equipment for amplifying vocals and that should be it. At least that's what we had "back in the day". Whatever else there is, I just need to make it work by being spontaneous and well prepared. Hopefully I'd have checked all the important things prior to the session via phone and know what I'm getting myself into.
 
I agree, that would be a challenge. Good advice with the mic splitter; I might be able to return the vocals at line level from the interface into their mixer but that would alter their rehearsal setup. I think it's good to have several options of how to record. That would largely depend on what the band wants and what they feel comfortable with. Solid advice not interfering with their routine. Recording sessions would be at the weekend, not just a few hours in the evening after work, so I guess there would be time to track separately. Again, that might just depend on the band's preferences, how much time they can spend and what they want to achieve. They'd need to have a good drummer for tracking everything at once. Trying to overdub drums with all the bleed from the other instruments and vocals might prove difficult.

Even with a whole day or two you will spend a lot of time setting up and making things work, so time will be short. One option, if they can perform without vocals, is to track just the instruments using the split, then track vocals one or several at a time using headphones. That would at least avoid bleed into vocal mics and let them do multiple vocal takes.

If you bypassed their rehearsal sound system you could put everybody on headphones. Connect bass/guitars/keys direct just for monitoring and track only drums (and maybe bass) first, then start layering. You'd get maximum isolation but it would take a lot of time. You'd be lucky to track more than one song in a day.

I have a live mixing/live recording setup with an Alesis HD24 racked with my live mixer. They stay wired together so I don't have to spend any time connecting them. I can roll the rack in to a venue or rehearsal space, hook it to the splitter, snake and power and it's ready to go. I just pop a drive in the recorder, create a project and song, arm tracks and hit record. Even then I'd want an hour or so to hook up, troubleshoot and set levels.
 
Hey Tim my suggestion to you would be to go to a few different practices with a few different bands (bring ear plugs!!!!!) and just view what is going on and how they conduct their practices (- the beer, wine and pot).
With that knowledge you'll have a better grip as to what your up against.

Do you have a good click to provide the drummer with in a click track?

What I've seen for most bands that aren't fortunate enough to have a house with a basement or what have you to practice in, are forced to rent a shoe box size room to practice in ..... and I mean shoe box size!!!!

So if you could talk them into recording separately that will be the way to go.
Drums and bass through a DI, then guitars and keys, then acoustic, then any solos, then vocals and backing vocals.

As far as your microphone selection that you have now looks good but I didn't see anything for the kick drum - wait I guess the re20 but then what will you have for the floor tom? Get a Sennheiser E602 or the Shure beta 52 over the AKG d112 for the kick.
The t-bone might work, but If it was me I wouldn't. I would go for something like the Sennheiser E604s.
And I'm not to keen on using clip-ons for recording ... you'll get a lot of transferred noise through those. great for live sound!!
I don't think you'll need the baby bottle or the 414s. BUT if you must have the 414s I do have a factory matched pair that I don't use that often at all that we can talk about.

Have a nice commuter ride - man three hours a day! When do you sleep?







:cool:
 
Click track should be no problem, I could even record a shaker for example and loop it to provide a more organic click track. Other than that I could use about any sound from Addictive Drums. I think I can find something for everyone's taste ;)

I've thought about room size and bleed, too and I definitely like the idea of Drums + Bass DI first best.

Regarding the clip-ons, I'm not too concerned about the noise. I'll try to get most of the tom sound from the overheads anyway and if it's mandatory to use tom mics for e.g. metal and heavier rock stuff they will be heavily gated. But you're right, that might be the area where I can improve most mic-wise. I'm just settling for the t-bones first because four of those E604s would set me back another EUR 480.00 as opposed to 79.00. What do you suggest for toms?

I've read some people prefer the Shure beta 52 above the AKG D-112 and vice versa. I figured both mics are in the same ballpark regarding price so all I can do is try one out, right? But which one to begin with? Now I'm leaning more into the Shure direction... :cool: What about the E602? How do the Shure and the Sennheiser compare?

Well, if I don't need the Baby Bottle, what LDC would you recommend for vocals? The only LDC I have is the AKG C3000 which I'm not that fond of. I figured for 400 bucks you can't go wrong on the Bottle and have a second option for Vocals. Of course there are still the dynamic LDs I have.

Oh, on the Baby Bottle: I'm also a sucker for design and that is such a nice looking mic. I know, I know, should be no concern but I 've tried to fight it numerous times and I never win... :spank: :spank: The Dragonfly is looking very nice, too. Ok, I need to stop now :spank:

Cheers
Tim
 
I'd go with the beta 52 first then you won't have to sell of the Akg later.:D
The Shure has a nice low end but the Sennheiser seems to get the attack and the low end thump at a very reasonably factor.
You have yet to mention any tube LDC, any reason for that on the vocals? The MXL 2003a has been getting great reviews.








:cool:
 
MXLs are kind of hard to come by here in Germany. Tube LDC? Don't know, I just thought a good LDC should be part of any mic collection and I figured the Baby Bottle to be a good one according to the reviews I read. I've heard a Rode NT1-A which I didn't find too bad. Regarding tube LDCs, i'm just not sure, feels like a "second step" to me where I have yet to do the first step, if you know what I mean.
 
From our experience recording the camper's band at the rock n roll summer camps last summer, we did well with an Alesis HD24. We also used a 32X8 analog board, and recorded pretty much dry. The rig was connected in the 16-in/16-out configuration, so we actually had only 16 channels, for the most point. The original plan was to record each band in one hour, and mix them down to 2 tracks in a half-hour. Yeah, right!:rolleyes: Actual time was at least twice that. Anyway, that setup worked very well for us.

One luxury we had was we set up a tracking room, in which the bands recorded- past a point, they came to us.
 
You have no mixer? Does that band have a mixer that has direct outs on each pre amp?

I would recommend streaming the Audio an external drive 7200 rpm Firewire 400/800 also.

I did live mixing with an Allen & Heath mix wizard that has 16 direct outs off each preamp and run that to a Motu 8 channel interface.....no ability to link 8 more so was gonna buy 2 motu 828's for 16 tracks. With that purchase and rack and cables I decided it was more gear to lug and setup so i purchased a Mackie 1640I instead for about the same price as the 2 MOTU units. One firewire cable to MAC and done.

Going to someones practice and using their mixer direct outs is the least intrusive way to do it (providing that they have a mixer that can do that.
If thats not possible using my own mixer is best.......I am familiar with it and know how to use it better than someone else's gear.....
This way they can go about as usual and adjust the mixer to what they need and not effect what i'm doing recording (once pre levels set correctly)

Live recording in a club........no overdubs
 
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MXLs are kind of hard to come by here in Germany. Tube LDC? Don't know, I just thought a good LDC should be part of any mic collection and I figured the Baby Bottle to be a good one according to the reviews I read. I've heard a Rode NT1-A which I didn't find too bad. Regarding tube LDCs, i'm just not sure, feels like a "second step" to me where I have yet to do the first step, if you know what I mean.

Yeah save getting a nice tube mic till you get your permanent place all set up.







:cool:
 
You have no mixer? Does that band have a mixer that has direct outs on each pre amp?

You can use the channel inserts if you
1) insert the TRS plug into the channel insert jack only to the first notch, and
2) aren't using the channel inserts for something else (like effects for that channel.) I don't think I have ever used the inserts for this when running sound for a live show, but YMMV.

Live recording in a club........no overdubs

I realize you were directing us to that url- and if that is your work, very nice, but if you are also suggesting that you can never overdub after a live club recording, this is not alltogether true. If you have controlled bleed well enough, you can call one or more musicians (or drummer:D ) into a make-shift studio to overdub his part. It's not easy, but can be done if you really gotta.
 
yep...forgot about inserts trick.

Was just emphasizing that my sample was all live (not studio overdubs)
to make a point that you can get a decent live recording this way
 
MXLs are kind of hard to come by here in Germany. Tube LDC? Don't know, I just thought a good LDC should be part of any mic collection and I figured the Baby Bottle to be a good one according to the reviews I read. I've heard a Rode NT1-A which I didn't find too bad. Regarding tube LDCs, i'm just not sure, feels like a "second step" to me where I have yet to do the first step, if you know what I mean.

Hey Tim .... did you see the new Blue microphone called the spark? Orange in color and is $199. US!!!!







:cool:
 
Yep, saw it! Crazy design, looks like a radioactive time capsule from the future! Not really my cup of tea but I'm always slow with new things ;)
 
Say Tim just out of curiosity Have you heard of Anton Stucki?

He is at a sewage treatment plant just out side of Berlin and he is Blasting the plant with Mozart with claims that it helps the microbes to break down the waste at an increased productivity level, with savings of 1,000 Euros a month!

I thought that you would find this interesting and maybe you could check into it and report any other finding to me.
For instance... does it have to be Mozart or can it be any type of music.
Or perhaps it's just a melody line, chord intervals, or single note vibration.

I know that this is a weird quest! But I have dabbled in the relationship of sound and the affects upon organics. Any info would be helpful with my studies.












:cool:
 
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