Please help explain meter readings

spantini

spantini

COO of me, inc.
I need a bit of assistance with something. I'm either too tired from playing all night, or I've forgotten something I used to know years ago.. or both.

Here's what I'm looking at :

y4JgZwJ.jpg

I plug my Strat into my Tascam US-2x2 interface with a 1/4" line cord - input is INST. Interface is connected to PC via USB. All this into Reaper, then thru a plugin (Amplitube VST3 guitar amp sim chain with a couple of sim pedals).

I have my Strat cranked, all pots full up. The interface input gain is all the way left - lowest setting. The green peak indicator constantly flashes while I'm strumming chords. The only way to lower the input so the interface peak indicator backs off is to lower the Vol pot on the Strat.

On the mixer.. The track and master faders are both at 0. I see the master level meters constantly peaking into the red, maintaining a +10dB level. The track level meter is at -12dB. Increasing the gain from any point in the chain greatly increases the master meter readings and barely moves the track meters.

I'd like to know why the large difference in meter readings. My memory needs refreshing - please.

Everything works and sounds fine. I think I can't see the forest for the trees here.
 
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spantini said:
The green peak indicator constantly flashes while I'm strumming chords.
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Not sure if you have a manual....but I think you may be confusing the "green" input signal indicator with the "red" peak indicator.
IOW...you're supposed to see the green one flash when there is a signal...even a very low signal. It doesn't mean it's too loud/peaking...that's what the red peak indicator is for. I'm pretty sure that's how the Tascam interface is set up to work...check your manual.

AFA what you're then seeing downstream in the DAW app...TBH, it's irrelevant. Get the signal set at the interface, and don't worry what it reads in the DAW *at that time*. Once you have the track...THEN concern yourself with the DAW metering.

Of course, if you're have the track you are recording into already jacked way up...then it's going to show/be hot.
Leave it at the nominal/ZERO setting...no extra gain. After you record...then you can mess with the DAW track level.
 
spantini said:
.. The only way to lower the input so the interface peak indicator backs off is to lower the Vol pot on the Strat...
Click to expand...

miroslav said:
Not sure if you have a manual....but I think you may be confusing the "green" input signal indicator with the "red" peak indicator.
IOW...you're supposed to see the green one flash when there is a signal...even a very low signal. It doesn't mean it's too loud/peaking...that's what the red peak indicator is for. I'm pretty sure that's how the Tascam interface is set up to work...check your manual...
Click to expand...

I mispoke concerning the peak indicator on my interface. You're correct, the red peak indicator doesn't flash at all.. just the green input signal indicator.

I was just wondering why there is such a large difference in meter levels - with the interface input gain at it's lowest setting resulting in constant DAW red peak readings and constant +10dB on the master meter and only -12dB on the track meter.

When I increase the gain on the interface so the green light is constant (no red at all), the track meter level rises above 0dB and the master meter goes solid red into peaking.

I understand not to worry about the DAW levels for now.. I'm just curious why the large discrepancy between master and track meter levels.

Everything sounds great - no problems. Just my curiosity :D
 
Hi, I am new here.

It sounds like you may have some gain staging occurring after your guitar track channel strip. I'm thinking of a situation such as having a compressor on the master fader strip which is boosting the gain up from the recording level to clipping (red). This could also be an EQ, gain adjustment, limiter, etc.. (any type of gain stage)

Make sure you don't have any of these inserts/plug-ins/gain staging setup.
 
The meter on the track is constant because the track is recording the sound of the amp sim, which is probably distorted and/or heavily compressed. The other meters are indicating the level of the clean sound of the guitar, which seems to be peaking.
 
Farview said:
The meter on the track is constant because the track is recording the sound of the amp sim, which is probably distorted and/or heavily compressed. The other meters are indicating the level of the clean sound of the guitar, which seems to be peaking.
Click to expand...

I've never used Reaper but wouldn't this mean the master fader is indicating guitar input level? Seems strange that the master fader would be showing the interface input level, unless the clean signal was somehow being mixed in with the ampsim output signal.
 
These posts are often confusing, because the poster forgets to add a piece of equipment or something they have in the line, then it takes awhile to realize something doesn't add up. Is this problem occurring before Amplitube? As in, just the guitar straight into the interface? Make sure there's no master bus plugins on, compressors or limiters or anything that would be raising gain.

My Gibson runs super hot, even with the interface at minimum volume. If that's indeed your problem, pick up one of these:

MICRO DI

It has a switch to cut the gain by, I think, 15db. I used it in front of the interface, before I got my GNX3000. If you need one and can't find one online or at your Guitar Center, pm me.
 
OP has an Amplitube pluggin running with other FX in the chain. I have never done this but surely that will add gain in the monitoring path?

Dave.
 
andrushkiwt said:
These posts are often confusing, because the poster forgets to add a piece of equipment or something...

My Gibson runs super hot, even with the interface at minimum volume. If that's indeed your problem, pick up one of these:

MICRO DI

It has a switch to cut the gain by, I think, 15db. I used it in front of the interface, before I got my GNX3000. If you need one and can't find one online or at your Guitar Center, pm me.
Click to expand...
Farview said:
The meter on the track is constant because the track is recording the sound of the amp sim, which is probably distorted and/or heavily compressed. The other meters are indicating the level of the clean sound of the guitar, which seems to be peaking.
Click to expand...

Thanks! ;) It's just the guitar straight into the interface - no master bus plugins, comp or limiters. HOWEVER... in the amp sim chain I have two stomp boxes.. one is a compressor which makes me think
@Farview's response may be the explanation I'm seeking. Makes sense to me.

amplit.jpg
 
LaceSensor said:
I've never used Reaper but wouldn't this mean the master fader is indicating guitar input level? Seems strange that the master fader would be showing the interface input level, unless the clean signal was somehow being mixed in with the ampsim output signal.
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I'm assuming he doesn't mean the master output fader. Unless his master output is not listening to the amplitube channel or, like you said, he is listening to a mix of clean and dirty.

When I read the question, I read it as "why do all the meters except the track meter register gain changes" The answer to that would be because that is the one with amplitube on it.
 
Robus said:
Your interface may have software settings in addition to the front panel knobs.
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Yes. I have left them at their default settings as they seem to work fine as is.

andrushkiwt said:
Do you see your "input" volume pot on the bottom left? Turn that to midnight. Try that.
Click to expand...

Ok. That does lower the master level readings, leaving the track level readings unchanged - drops the master meters to around +6dB max - doesn't go much lower than that on the meters, even if I turn the knob all the way down.. only drops to about +4dB. This also greatly reduces the headphone monitor volume, so I have to turn them up to max otherwise I don't hear the full effect of the guitar and sims.

Now, this is when I'm using the amp sim while recording. I haven't recorded a dry guitar, then applied the sim afterward - don't know what to expect there. I really want to record wet so I can really get the feel of it. Or at least monitor it wet while recording dry.
 
Stop! Back up.

The track meter is showing the input level from the interface as is. Changing plugin settings or fader positions will not impact this ever.

The Master meter is showing what's coming through the plugin chain, modified by the track fader and mater fader. Your plugin is adding gain. It's that simple.

Now, the numbers you're reading on the master meter are not the same as you're seeing on the track fader. You've got your master fader showing both peak and RMS levels, and you've got the RMS levels offset by 18db so that actual RMS of -18dbFS read out as 0. This makes it look more like an analog meter where 0 is "nominal average level". But then you're not looking at where the outside meters are hitting, but rather where the inside meters which show peak levels are. But those meters are meant to be read against the inside scale. In your case, your peaks are hitting around -6dbFS on it's way out to your speakers.
 
ashcat_lt said:
Stop! Back up.

The track meter is showing the input level from the interface as is. Changing plugin settings or fader positions will not impact this ever.

The Master meter is showing what's coming through the plugin chain, modified by the track fader and mater fader. Your plugin is adding gain. It's that simple...
Click to expand...

That pretty much nails it :D Thank you!
 
Yes. Since I'm not too deep into the (new to me) digital recording processes yet, I'm not sure when to refer to which numbers. This has helped, along with explaining the large visual difference in meter readings I'm seeing.
_____________

As pertains to the actual meter readings and what's what, I found some more info here : Do You Know How To Read Your Meters? - Recording Revolution
 
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