Newbie Assistance

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packratlouie

Member
I am 17 and i have about 1000 to setup some type of small recording setup. I am lookin to spend this on everything besides mic's. I am not sure exactly what i need, but since im going to be recording electric guitar, acoustic, keyabord, drums and bass, i was thinking I was going to need a compressor on top of mixing board for sure. I have the newest version of cool edit pro, and i am quite fluent with it. I was wondering what sort of sound card I need to get the optimal results out of any equiptment I should purchase. As well as what kinda of equpitment would give me pretty decent results. I was looking at mackie mixers, and behringer. May not be top end but for a small scale recording setup i believe they should do. Could someone please give me some sort of tutoring lesson here on recording techniques and even recording equpitment. It would be much appreciated. Either contact me by email (packratlouie@shaw.ca) or if you have msn messenger (ferrari854@hotmail.com) make a post on this thread if you would like also. Thanks alot guys
 
I would sugguest a sound card something like the motu 828mkII or a Midiman 1010. However these won't give you enough pre's if you want to record drums. So you might want to go for something like a Mackie 1202vlzpro or a Mackie 1402vlzpro. The 1202 has 4 xlr inputs with phantom power and a channel insert on those channels (which you would use to go to your soundcard) and the 1402 has 6. If you only need to record 4 tracks at once you could get a Dalta 44.

Have you decided if you want a hardware compressor or plugins? You can get some cheap (free) plugins. May people can make sugguestions on that, but you might need to get plugins due to money concerns.

You also need monitors, headphone amp, patch cables, etc, etc, etc. Maybe someone will chip in on that.
 
thanks for the reply. All that sounds good to me. Since I am planning on recording my own stuff (play all instruments for composition), I was debating whether I wanted a hardware compressor, or a software one. It will be somewhat hard for me to play with the software compressors because I want to be able to control my sound very close to the instrument I am playing... I just dont know how big of a hassle it is goin to be when I try to set the levels as Im playing... Now you meantioned me needing headphone amp as well as a monitor; could you explain to me why I need a monitor? and why i need an amp for headphones? I have looked for these answers, but it seems as if they do not exist. Thanks alot for the info though
 
I see where you are coming from with the hardware compressor. You will not need a headphone amp if it's only yourself. A headphone amp is needed when you have more than one person.

Monitors (ie speakers) are used for when you are mixing your songs.

How many tracks do you plan on using at once?
 
Hey man. About the compressor. I wouldn't worry so much about which one would be easier, because most times, compression is applied during the mixing process..not tracking. But in my opinion, you would get better sound/functionality out of an outboard compressor...look at the dbx 160.
 
I have an FMR RNC, (Really Nice Compressor.) It's inexpensive, and works very well. From what a lot of seasoned recorders around here say, it's an unbeatable compressor for the price.

Check it out .here

I'd say that outboard is the way to go, too. Since there are some free plugins out there, you can always grab those, too, however. But, trying to tame that snare drum is probably more efficiently done during tracking than processing the track afterwards.

-Speedy
 
Speedy VonTrapp said:
I have an FMR RNC, (Really Nice Compressor.) It's inexpensive, and works very well. From what a lot of seasoned recorders around here say, it's an unbeatable compressor for the price.

Check it out .here

I'd say that outboard is the way to go, too. Since there are some free plugins out there, you can always grab those, too, however. But, trying to tame that snare drum is probably more efficiently done during tracking than processing the track afterwards.

-Speedy
Click to expand...


RNC for $164.00 free shipping from Jack's Music Factory. (cheapest I've seen!). link below

http://www.sloca.com/
 
well now i see that alot of people are replying to my posts, so i think its time I starting give out more info as to what my plans are.

I plan on recording these following instruments, not at the same, but simply layering tracks over each other to build a final compilation.

-Electric Guitar
-Acoustic
-Bass Guitar
-Full Drum kit
-Possibly midi-keyboard

I am fully capable of recording these all myself, so I am thinking that excluding the drums, I will only be recording 1 track at any given time. I had thought of the idea of somehow taking each mic and giving it a seperate channel In CoolEdit 2, so that if needed I could eq each piece seprately, but then i realized this is not quite possible.

I was looking at getting a mixing board, probably at least 6 XLR inputs, but I havent decided what would be the best for output. Do I want to use High Quality Rca's for my output? Do i want to use a 1/4" output? Do i want a balanced XLR output? These are the questions which often hinder my decisions on which equiptment to buy. I do not know whether or not I want a compresser becuase I do not know where I would use it as MIC>Board>Compresser>Computer... or Mic>Board>Computer>Compresser>Computer. As you can see I am quite uneducated as to what means these units are capable of. I am using cool edit 2 which seems to have a fair amount of compresser plugins, but I find them to be very tedious and my knowledge of terms such as "low noise floor" at this point, is very limited. I figured that the best way for me to learn my terms is to mess around with physical products, such as a hardware compresser. For my soundcard, I simply want something that will not distort my sound, and keep it at the highest bitrate possible. I have seen alot of talk about the audiophile card, and it seems to be a standard in home recording, but once again, my question is whether or not I want a balanced signal into my soundcard or not? Now I was thinking that when I am mixing my audio, a time would come where of course, I am going to have to physically listen to every track, and analyze how they sound in conjuction with others. I am in no way prepared to use my 100.00 computer speakers for this, i know they will not do.
So then I realized why someone obviously reccomended me using studio monitors. I dont exactly know how this would work, and what type of preamp I need and such. Would i plug the monitors into an output on the mixing board? Or would I plug them into an output on the audiophile card so I can preview the digital signal rather than the analog signal from the board?
Also for a headphone amp, I dont understand how if i wanted to have more than 1 set of headphones at once, why this would be necessary? What kind connection is made between the mixer and the headphone amp which makes this unit so vital? Does it even plug into the mixing board, or into the computer? My lack of knowledge has caused me to bounce around from opinion to opinion, leaving me in a blur of choices to be made. My overall goal is to be able to record a drum track, and then layer each instrument overtop of it until it is completed, and if necessary, re-record the drum track to fix any minor errors. I am not looking for the best quality, of course I expect no hissing, and no crackling since I will be recording everything In an isolation room I have built. I also wanty to be able to achive that "studio presense sound." I have noticed using reverb on most every track makes its more life like. Another question I have is whehter or not the newest version of cool edit is going to suffice for my means. I have heard alot of great thing about cool edit, and it seems to look like it is what I need. Overall, i would probably not purchase more than a couple dynamic mics, since I can rent high quality ones at a very low cost, unless someone else has a better idea for me. This would be my plan for products to purchase

-Mixing board (minimum 6 xlr inputs)
- Hardware Compresser (how mny input/outputs are nescessary for a drum kit? is it necessary for drum kit? is software better for this?)
- High quality sound card (which does not limit my options in the future ie. quality limitations, dB limitations)
- A sec of nice dynamic mic's, plyable to either mic'ing parts of a drum kit, or micing an acoustic guitar. (i can rent other high quality mics at low cost at any time)
- Monitor(s) if necessary (i would probaly invest in used ones)
- Monitor pre-amp, if necessary (is there any way around having to purchase a preamp for these? Is there a way around purchasing monitors, and still having accurate output of the audio you are mixing?)

This is a whole wack of information guys, and for all of you troopers who have actually read this, and plan on giving a reply, I thank you alot, becuase although I have read alot of information on this forum, I believe experience comes with time. I have only been in the market to do this for about a month, and if anyone has an suggestions on books, cd roms or dvds to invest in, or if they can offer me some type of e-mail support to a fellow in dire need of suggestions, I would be more than excited. Thanks alot guys... no really, thanks a million.
 
Just to throw another thing into the loop. If a mixer is waht you are after. I know all about agonizing over which one to get/what connections/how many pres etc.

Mackies are decent, Behringer.... another story. But if the Mackie is eating up too much of the budget, there is a third option that is not Behringer: check the Yamaha MG mixers. I just bought an MG 16/4 yesterday, and head to head against my Behringer MX 602A the pres are a distinct improvement. I can't say I hear a great deal of difference in teh signal it generates, but there is distinctly less crackle/static when the pres are cranked up high, and that makes a world of difference to me. I haven't done much work with this board yet, but it is very flexible.

The MG 16/4 is cheap ($275 ish), has 10 XLR preamps, an alt 1/2 bus and inserts on 8 of the preamps. This can generate up to 14 different outs (8 using inserts as direct outs, the alt bus for 2, teh main bus for 2 and the two fx sends for 2 more), and you could hook up powered monitors to the control room out (note: if you get powered monitors you don't need a power amp, but passive monitors do require a power amp).

There is only one headphone out, but if that is all you need, you are set, if you need more you can buy or rent a headphone mixer with mroe outs.


I am using it with an Audiophile 24/96 card ($150?) which gives me two in/outs in analog, and has a S/PDIF in out as well. If you get an external D/A converter, then it is a 4-in/out card. Even though they are unbalanced connections, I have not yet noticed a problem with them.

As I also want an external compressor, although it may not be the cats meow, i have a TC Electronics M300 on order. It is a two-channel FX processor with reverb and other effects (ie compressor), and is also D/A A/D converter ($199?)

That would run you $650 for all that gear (not incl. monitors), and by no means is it great gear, but it is flexible and decent.

I have to admit that for drum recording this is a little limiting, but with taht mixer you could put 6 mics on the drum kit and premix a few of the drum tracks to bus down to 4 ins to the soundcard.

With the extra $350 that you save with this route, you could opt for a Delta 66 card, and then you would have 6-in/out if you hvae the external D/A converter to use the S/PDIF in. Still have money left over.
 
that all sounds really nice and pretty to me except for one part. I think you may have missed the part about my lack of knowledge lol. I believe you are givin it to me in as plain english as you can, and I'll just have to read up on some more information. Thanks for suggestions though. One questions is about the behringer product. I do not understand why it is slammed so often by people, and the praised by others... other claiming to be pretty into the recording scene. I can understand how behringer is knockoff, but I mean in all actuality, does it really make a difference for the average recorder. I am very keen on perfection, and if this unit is going to give me trouble/hassle when it comes to clipping, or less headroom, I think I may take your advice and invest in another unit. As long as I know that it "IS" possible to record what I want to record with this unit, no matter how tedious the setting may be, I would be happy with it. I am 17 years old, and the budget is quite tight. But for about 650, that sounds pretty damn good to me. Thanks alot.
 
As you said, you have a lot of reading to do and practise to understand what all the various bits do. You seem to have the absolute basics down:

if it weren't for the drums, you would likely survive with a 2-in/out soundcard, in which case all you need is a two-channel preamp, and something to run the output of the soundcard to so you can monitor. A mixer still offers the best flexibility for all of this, especially if you ever want to use outboard effects/units like compressors, eq, reverb etc. If all you need is 2-in/out, you don't need a lot of channels on teh mixer, but you do need inserts and aux sends for the outboard processing.

But, because you want to do drums, you need more than 2 inputs to your PC, hence at least a 4-in, preferably a 6-in. A Delta 44 gets you your 4 ins, all analog. A 2496 Audiphile gets you 4-ins but two are on S/PDIF, hence the need for an external A/D D/A converter (which isn't an efficient way to do it, because the Delta 44 costs less than an Audiophile + A/D D/A converter, but the M300 is decent and also doubles as your outboard compressor/reverb/delay etc). The Delta 66 gets you 6-in, but again, like the Audiophile, two are on S/PDIF, hence the need for an external AD/DA converter. There are others out there too. It seems to me that 6-ins is what you need (at least this is what I am telling myself I need).

Regarding Behringer, well, read around. You're right, many people say they are just fine. Maybe they are, I don't know what you are really after. But, what I do know is the quality control on Behringer is poor, and apparently getting them serviced isn't always easy. It's also about the blatant design rip-offs that Behrigner uses, which may not mean alot to some people, but to others they find it ethically repulsive. Yamaha is more reputable, and not a lot more expensive. Good luck.
 
A lot of people slag Behringer because they're made in China. So is Mackie.

A lot of people slag Behringer because they think they have stolen their mixer designs from Mackie. That was one mixer, and the case was resolved in Behringer's favour.

A lot of people slag Behringer for their customer support/service record. If you buy a JVC stereo from Future Shop and have a problem with it, do you take it to JVC? No. You take it to Future Shop.

I got a faulty Behringer board, and took it back to the retailer. They gave me an identical loaner that worked, and THEY sent mine back to Behringer to be repaired or replaced. That, BTW, was the very first time I've had a problem with Behringer stuff since I bought my first piece about three or four years ago.

I have asked at two major music stores whether they get more Behringer stuff returned than other manufacturers, and they both told me that their record was as good as anyone else's.

Sound.... the new UB series mixers (I got the 2442FX-PRO) are a significant step up from the older MX series ones. The pres are better than the one in my dedicated rack-mount tube pre (a Peavey TMP-1... and yes, the tubes ARE part of the chain....) I believe they're comparable to the Mackie VLZ-PRO series mixer pres. So, they're not Avalon, but they're not $5 000 either.

Chris
 
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