Newb Questions Regarding Pre Amps

B

Brother Rob

New member
Setting up my first Studio. The recorder is a 16 Track Tape (MSR-16).

I have most of the equipment I need. However, I do not have any Pre Amps. I am completely ignorant regarding Pres. I figure I'll need at least two Pre Amp channels to start.

Now comes the "Dumb Questions" part of this post...

Firstly, I see several Pre Amps with multiple Channels. Some indicate "2 Channels" or "Dual Channel" and some say "Stereo".

Is there a difference? I am guessing not, but it seems strange that even within the same manufacturer they use different terms (Dual vs. Stereo) for different products.

Also, would I just be better off buying two single channel units, or one "Dual" channel?

Finally, I am a "Tube Snob" when it comes to Guitar Amps. Should I lose this snobbery for Pre Amps? Some have a Solid State Stage + Tube Stage. Is that preferable? It sounds like a good option.

Reading the TweakHeadz info, it seems that to a certain extent, you get what you pay for.

Any suggestions on getting me to two channels for less than $500? Will I be disappointed for the Less than $500 range?

Really appreciate this site and everyone's collective knowledge.
 
Don't think I ever saw the word "Stereo" associated with a preamp but it's possible some manufacturer has used it if it was maybe a preamp specifically designed for use with stereo mics, so that the two preamp channels are maybe ganged together to maintain level integrity between them...?

Dual or 2-Channel....same thing, it's just two preamps in one unit.

I'm a dual-pre kind of guy. I always feel that even though I may only use one preamp channel at a time...I like having the pair, especially if I like the preamp. That way I can maybe use two mics for different mic flavor, but both through the same pre...like say, if I was recording piano or acoustic guitar...or whatever.
I also have a couple of 4-channel preamps, and they get a lot of use. One of them is my go-to drum kit preamp, letting me use two-channels for the OH pair, and the other two channels for Snare and Kick spot mics.
That said, there are some great preamps that tend to come as a single channel (I've been lusting after a Vintech X73i)...anf often, these single-channel preamps also include some on-board EQ options.

For $500...it will be a stretch getting a good quality dual-pre...but if you buy used, you might find something decent, but it's really all about what kind of quality you are after. Keep in mind that your mics and preamps are probably the most important two pieces of gear...and of course your monitors. All the other gear will only be second-string in the signal chain, so having a couple of great mics and pres goes a long way.
 
Finally, I am a "Tube Snob" when it comes to Guitar Amps.
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Me too.
Should I lose this snobbery for Pre Amps?
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Absolutely. Unless you're going with the Manley / TubeTec / Avalon to some extent (although their solid-state units are far better IMO) "real" tube gear (as opposed to all the goofy "toob" stuff out there that would probably function perfectly well if you jumped the connectors with paper clips).
Some have a Solid State Stage + Tube Stage. Is that preferable? It sounds like a good option.
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Most of those are even worse.

Cheap and wonderful -- FMR's RNP (dual), Grace Designs m101 (single), True's P-Solo (obviously single there). GAP's Pre73 is a very nice 'flavor' unit...

But if you're looking at $500 for two channels, I don't think you're going to find anything that will compete with the RNP...
 
witzendoz said:
How are you playing the MSR16 back? Do you have a mixer (console) if so don't these have mic pres or are you just upgrading?

Cheers
Alan.
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Again, I am pretty ignorant. Lets make sure we establish this right away.

Yes I have a M-2516 Recording Mixer. I just sort of got the impression that, especially for vocals and acoustic guitars, a Pre is a nearly universal recommendation. Figured I'd start out the "right" way.
 
Ignore Tube Pres for the time being. Ones worth having are expensive. And for the most part a good solid state pre with a nice transformer will cost you less and get you the "warmth" that is associated with tubes in guitar amps.

I only have tube amps, and solid pres. They are two completely different animals.

Do you have an interface? That should have some pres built in. If you want better ones or something different that's when you'll need to buy preamps.

In the sub $500 category I'd recommend:

RNP (2 channels about $400) - good all around pres, ugly box, great sound, very transparent and clean, nothing fancy just very nice.

GAP Pre-73 (1 channel $300...2 would be just a bit more than $500) - nice character, great warm sound for vocals and acoustics, nice mellow tone for laid back or classic electrics, not so great on some things, but overall a wonderful pre that is definitely worth getting at least one at some time. If the ones in your interface sound good to you (which most should, interfaces have pretty good pres now days), I'd definitely recommend picking up a GAP as another sound.
 
Mo Facta said:
Look at the Daking pres. They get nothing but praise.

Cheers :)
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Not gonna get there in my $ range. But I'll put them on my Wish List. Thanks for the Recommendation.

Ethan Winer said:
I'm sure the preamps in that are perfectly fine. Surely there are more important "weak links" in your system that would benefit from your investment.

--Ethan
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Great advice. I have a ton of experimentation in front of me. Perhaps I'll get started and see what drives me nuts first and go from there.

aaronmcoleman said:
Ignore Tube Pres for the time being. Ones worth having are expensive. And for the most part a good solid state pre with a nice transformer will cost you less and get you the "warmth" that is associated with tubes in guitar amps.

I only have tube amps, and solid pres. They are two completely different animals.

Do you have an interface? That should have some pres built in. If you want better ones or something different that's when you'll need to buy preamps.

In the sub $500 category I'd recommend:

RNP (2 channels about $400) - good all around pres, ugly box, great sound, very transparent and clean, nothing fancy just very nice.

GAP Pre-73 (1 channel $300...2 would be just a bit more than $500) - nice character, great warm sound for vocals and acoustics, nice mellow tone for laid back or classic electrics, not so great on some things, but overall a wonderful pre that is definitely worth getting at least one at some time. If the ones in your interface sound good to you (which most should, interfaces have pretty good pres now days), I'd definitely recommend picking up a GAP as another sound.
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I'm seeing the GAP Pre-73 @ $350 on MF. Even at that price, one or two of them aren't gonna kill me. I think I'll start my experimentation and see where I get. If I think I need some more character I'll start with a GAP Pre-73 and see where I go from there.

Thanks for your help everyone.
 
Brother Rob said:
Again, I am pretty ignorant. Lets make sure we establish this right away.

Yes I have a M-2516 Recording Mixer. I just sort of got the impression that, especially for vocals and acoustic guitars, a Pre is a nearly universal recommendation. Figured I'd start out the "right" way.
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Going back a few (quite a few) years ago, my studio set up was a M2524 (24 channel version of your 2516) and a MSR16S. I ran the studio as my full time job back then and recorded countless albums with that setup. When I listen back to them now they sound fine. I would forget the pres for now and spend your money upgrading other things until the circle of upgrading comes back to the pres at a later date, as was advised by Ethan and brother bob.

As a side note, next Thursday I am doing live sound for the Gyuto Monks of Tibet, I don't own so much live gear anymore so I am going to take down my old M-2524 (which I still own, as I kept it for live tracking at venues when doing live gig recordings) and use it for the front of house of the PA, I always considered the M-2524 to be a very underrated console.

Cheers
Alan.
 
Hi All

I have two much bass in my voice when I record. Any suggestions to reduce it???? I use AT2020 mic and Eureka as PreAmp. Zoom R8 is recorder and KRK ROKIT 6 monitors. Which Mic I can use to get better result??????? I recently spent $500 on EUREKA and can not afford to buy very expensive UA Pre Amps.
Best Regards
Masif
 
masif322 said:
Hi All

I have two much bass in my voice when I record. Any suggestions to reduce it???? I use AT2020 mic and Eureka as PreAmp. Zoom R8 is recorder and KRK ROKIT 6 monitors. Which Mic I can use to get better result??????? I recently spent $500 on EUREKA and can not afford to buy very expensive UA Pre Amps.
Best Regards
Masif
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You maybe should have posted this in a new thread as this one was about preamps.

There is nothing wrong with the preamp or the mic you are using and you should have been able to get good results. Have you tried moving a bit further away from the mic, maybe you are too close. Try 100mm then 200mm away to see if it improves the tone. Try engaging the high pass filter on the Eureka and/or shelving the bass off after you have recorded the track. The Eureka also has a good eq section and I am surprised that you can't get this to work for you. What does the room sound like that you are recording in? Has the room got any nasty bass nodes in it that is adding mud?

Don't waste you money trying to change the preamp it won't change the bass problem, and some will suggest a better mic or this and that mic, but you should be able to get good vocals with this setup, you are using the correct side of the mic to sing into? Maybe you just have a very bassey voice?

Cheers
Alan.
 
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