Neumann TLM 103

A friend has one or two of these in his very nice studio and I've heard it on acoustic guitars a lot - he's recorded a couple CDs for folks. Sounds wonderful, but his "room" is a real studio. I'd never get away with it in my little re-purposed bedroom.

Can't remember where, but I heard it used in a "shootout" with at least 2 other mics (both much lower in cost) on a male (low tenor, IIRC) vocal. It came down to opinions, and even the person that bought the mic admitted it wasn't his choice for the style he tested with it. To me, the choice of vocal mic is very subjective, and using a great mic is best reserved for great voices recorded in great rooms, and evaluated with great, experienced ears. I don't have any of those!
 
It's a very nice instrument mic (in an acoustically friendly space, of course) and it makes a decent vocal mic for certain voices (in an acoustically friendly space, of course). And when I say "certain voices" in this case I'm generally referring to "instrumental voices" -- think operatic / classical / jazz where the vocal is basically "just another instrument" that happens to be saying stuff in a verbal language --

Situations where you want the mic to actually capture what's happening without a lot of coloration.
 
I'm looking mostly to record my own voice, male generic, mostly country/pop covers of 70's 80's 90's songs. no screaming shouting rapping etc. Everything on the country side from Eagles, George Strait, Charlie Rich Kenny Rogers etc to some old pop /standards like Engelbert, Sinatra, Billy Joel. I am using an AKG 3000B which many will say is one of the worst microphones out there. Yet what I've cut so far is pretty good. My problem with the 3000B is I have to be very careful singing or sibilance becomes an issues real quick. I don't mind being careful and trying to become a better singer I just hate to have to concentrate so much on ss's that I kind of lose some of the ability to interpret the vocal with emotion. I thought about pulling the trigger on a SM7B but can't seem to get my head around a non condenser mic. I know good is good but it's a head thing with me. I'm also not sure if the pre's in my Tascam 2488 will give me enough gain with the SM7B. I don't have the ability to demo one.
 
Don't have any experience with the TLM103 or any other Neumann. A few years ago I bought a used Miktek C1 (cardioid only) that has become one of my more favorite vocal mics for pretty much the same type music genres you listed. It's a transformer coupled mic which I think lends some body/warmth to vocals. A unique feature is an internal switch that can change the capsule bias voltage to either 48v or 60v which alters the sound of the mic slightly, so it's kind of having two mics in one. Unfortunately not many videos of the C1 on Youtube, but the Miktek C1 is supposedly very much the same as the Miktek C7 (multi-patterned) in regard to the sound and Youtube videos can be found easier. I'm usually running the C1 through a GAP Pre73 preamp into a 2488NEO.
It's tough when you can't try a mic prior to purchase. I've bought most of what I have blindly based on reviews and online demos. Been fairly lucky in choices.

Miktek C1 Large-Diaphragm Condenser Microphone | Sweetwater
C1 | Miktek Audio
 
Well, there's a lot of places you could stop off between your current AKG and that TLM that would be less risk, IMO, i.e., you could throw $3-400 at a few mics that would probably be very useful and find one that works well for your voice, too!

Have you tried any other LDCs? I have exactly one (looking for another) and it's an AKG C214. I really like it for my voice and a couple others I've used it with, and sometimes as a 2nd mic on guitar and some other acoustic instruments. I'm sure others have lots of suggestions.
 
songsj said:
I thought about pulling the trigger on a SM7B but can't seem to get my head around a non condenser mic.
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Nearly every classic vocal mic is a dynamic. Or a ribbon - which is technically a dynamic.

I don't even know where this "vocal mics have to be condensers" came from. It's a fairly recent thing.

Anyway - A 7b *and* a nice preamp will *still* run you less than a 103...
 
Do you mean the SM57, I was talking the SM7b, runs around 399.00 I think. I own a couple of SM57's use on snare drums.
 
Nope - The 7b (IMO/E, one of the greatest vocal mics ever designed at any price) and -- I dunno -- A GAP Pre73 (I haven't kept up on the hot new preamps but you can't go wrong with the Pre73) and if you can't get a great sounding vocal from that.........
 
I have not been able to find one in decent shape anywhere close to a hundred bucks, That is for the SM7b. Retail is 399.00 They must be a good mic because the used ones go for a lot. Not always but one way to spot junk in anything is if the resale value is very low. People usually really want the used good stuff and at times in my opinion pay way too much for used, Example and this is just me, I would never pay 300.00 for a used mic I can buy new for 399.00. Unless I knew the person and it was basically hardly used. Not worth the risk but that is just me.
 
songsj said:
I have not been able to find one in decent shape anywhere close to a hundred bucks, That is for the SM7b. ...
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I think the point is that the 7b + a good preamp is still less than a Neumann TLM 103, not less than $103!

The 7b is a great vocal mic, but not necessarily for every voice, and probably not your go-to for acoustic guitar in most studios. (Not saying it won't work!)
 
And I was looking for clarification as I don't mind throwing a hundred bucks away taking a chance, at 400.00 I need to be a little more sure what I'm getting into. That is all. I guess what it all boils down to with mics and so many things in music. Each individual has to find what works for them. Some get lucky and find it relatively soon, others spend a small fortune to get there. I gathering information to hopefully make it as financially painless as possible. If I need to spend a grand I will but if a couple hundred will get it done so much the better.
 
If you did take the plunge on an SM7B you should probably also add a Cloudlifter to it with that 2488. It will make things so much better. Better gain-staging without the addition of the inevitable noise you can expect from having the preamp up as much as will be needed for that combo. The Cloudlifter does add a hundred bucks to your budget but worth every penny. And you already have a decent condenser in the AKG which I would keep. Sometimes I'll run a dynamic with a condenser to capture a vocal. Try it. You may find some magic there.

I don't find a TLM 103 to be a particularly outstanding vocal mic. The Mikteks are excellent all up and down the line. ADK makes really nicely voiced mics. Buying a used mic is always a crapshoot and it's easy to see why. I've been relatively lucky but maybe it's because most of the used mics I've purchased have been fairly high-end and for some reason people tend to care for their more expensive purchases a bit more.

I did buy an old AKG 414-U-BLS that was having a problem. I sent it to AKG and the only problem was dirt in the switches and the mic frame ground strap had come loose. A good "almost new condition" one is still 3 times what I have as an investment in that one. YMMV.
 
The TLM103 is an outstanding mic, worth every penny.
And that is also the case with a AKG 3000b, the AKG is much cheaper and consequently AKG used different technology, so the sound is very different. The AKG does not have to sound sibilant, much depends on your pre-amp and eq.
I use them quite often, the Neumann for voices and the AKG for instruments like violin.
I think you cannot compare these 2 mics on the same standards, they are just too different.
 
The problem with the SM7b is that is not very versatile, and when you need a mic that has multiple applications it is hardly a Swiss Army-type of tool. I have put one on hi hat where its dry quality is sort of nifty, and snare when I wanted to change things up. I think the TLM 103 is mediocre, if you think your clients might like to see that particular brand on your mic list it is the cheapest way to get that done, but it is weak porridge compared to a real Neumann, which basically stopped being produced when the U67 was discontinued. I have one of those Telechunken nine polar pattern tube mics which I have put on so many singers with results we all liked, it can be had for less that 200 bucks on Amazon, who has a return policy that makes your worries about audition microphones basically a non-issue. Set it on omni diectional, after letting it heat up for a couple of days, and you may find your new best friend. That pattern on this particular microphone is less sibilant, eliminates that pesky pop filter that seems to disconnect most people from the sweet spot, and with the kind of noise floor that the music you described all that nervous nellie worry about your fridge or dogs barking or whatever is never going to heard. Sometimes i will break out my Rode NT2, it is a pretty good sounding vocal mic, and if you can find one of the fairly common early versions of the Groove Tube Fet 55. well, when it was all I had I put it on lots of singers and everything else, currently it is parked above the floor tom where it is so much more detailed and "drummy" than the usual suspects in that application. Mainly enjoy, the rest is mere window dressing for the blind anyway....
 
I have the TLM 103. Bought it back around the turn of the century. I like it although I find it somewhat on the high end (audially). I've gotten some pretty good sounding vocals from it years ago, however I've been using it recently and I've struggled to capture what I got from it back then. It could just be my voice, or my ears. In any event I believe it to be a good mic for instruments also. As a vocal mic I think it depends on the voice as well as the other gear in the recording chain.
Don.....
 
I really appreciate all of the input and information. It is very helpful. I have not decided what I am going to do yet except you all helped me decide to wait, do a little more research and see if I can at least A/B my C3000b against some of these others at Guitar Center. 1100.00 For a a microphone is a lot for me. I maybe have 6K to 7K in my entire studio. I do not sell time or do this for money so my purchases need to be well thought out and pointed toward making my vocals and instrument playing sound as good as they can. Any more ideas are certainly welcome.
 
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