Mr.Q's "I wanna' Learn how 2 improve my skillz recd'ing vocals"!!!

MISTERQCUE

MISTERQCUE

Not Just Anutha Brutha
This thread is intended for those who are in dire need of assistance,advice & tips (like me) on recording singers, rappers,
poets,rockers,scatologists & speech!
Most of my jammies I produce and record are instrumental, but recently I have had peeps put lyrics to and sing on my jammies introducing a new flava' to my music. However, my voc rec'ding skillz needs vast improvement and I'm asking any and all for basic
tips.
To start off, I have a decent mic arsenal which includes an AT3035,KSM32L, RODEnt 1 & 3, AKG C1000 & 3000, Marshall 2001 &C1006 and a few other dynamics & condensors.

My 1st round of questions in a series of many;

Should voc's be recorded dry? How much layering should be used
recd'ing vocs.? What is the best efx to use recd'ing vocs? ("verbs,delay,chorus etc.). If layering lead voc's, is their a rule to panning?
Thank you for any and all responses
 
BTW.............

............the times I have rec'd vocs, I usually apply a small tap=back delay panned with some 'Verb; siblance control and level monitoring. I have found I am HEAVY handed on the EQ;
constantly boosting freq's 32hz and hi-er. I just can't seem to either make the lead voc sit up front in the mix while at the same time fit in the overall scheme of the recording.
Am I making any sense here!!??
 
How ya doin' Mr. Q? I have none of the mics you mention in your mic locker though I would like to aquire those.

You first have to consider your vocalist. Do they know anything about singing in front of a mic? In a studio, or live situation?

Have they ever sang in front of a condensor mic? Or only stage/studio dynamics?

YES. A vocal should be recorded dry. You will add the room in the mix. However, the vocalist will not want to sound like she/he is in an aneaonic chamber so you will have to add something to the cue mix. (No pun intended). The vocalist still needs to hear something that sounds like the environment in which they are used to singing in. That usually means a bit of reverb or delay or both.

If you make the vocalist comfortable, your whole session will be a lot better.
 
Man, now you're posting before I can help!;)

Yes you are making sense. It doesn't matter what it sounds like when you're tracking as long as you're levels are correct and the vocalist is happy. Make sure she/he gets enough headphone mix and that the reverb on the monitor sends makes 'em happy.

Anything that needs to be added to the sound can be done during the mixdown.

Now, you been around here long enough to know... that bad tracking, IE, distortion, clicks, clunks, and everything else that YOU have contol over is not going to make a good recording.

;) ;)
 
Definately record dry, it's better to E.Q. later
Singer must have control of their voice (a good singer that is)
know when & how to back off on LOUD parts.

Good song writing also, makes for a good singer, if they flub words and miss consonents maybe that song isnt for them or it was'nt written correctly --- believe me I've had plenty of people who WRITE WORDS, but when they say/sing them "IT DONT GO TOGETHER" so you start breakin it down "SYLLABLE" wise to flow with the song.

E.Q., EFFECTS & ENGINEERING -- the 3E will play a part in getting great vocals, and here's a hint of advice: when you mix, and you just can get the vocal LOUD enough, but the MUSIC is LOUD and MIXED correctly ...... just (come closer, looking left, looking right)

LOWER THE MUSIC, hence making the LEAD a bit louder, now if you have your mix going through a COMPRESSOR/LIMITER, you can regain the LOUDNESS of the overall MIX, giving you the LEAD VOX UP FRONT, but SETTING PERFECTLY IN THE MIX..

(See if you would've came by my crib and dropped of that LRC, I would'a scooped you to all the tricks:D :D :D :D
 
I think Sennheiser nailed it basically.

I'd add: get the right distance between singer and mic. It took me a long time to figure out that I sounded best at about 6 " from my vocal mic. I'm not a screamer, but then rap don't scream neither, right? I'd try 6", 9", and a foot. Glue the bastards to the floor so they don't move around. Tell 'em the distance between them and the mic is the center of their universe, and they're courting it. Threaten 'em with a cattle prod.

All your questions about layering and effects are for the mix, not the recording. As for panning, which is also mixing: the safest, try-dest, truest rule of thumb is: put the vox right up the middle. That's what listeners are focussing on consciously. Unconsciously, they're focussing on the beat and the bass, which is why *they* go up the middle as well. Put the guitars and keys out to the side. That's the traditional formula.

Also, I think mstudio's approach to getting the vocal/music relation right is a pretty good starting point.
 
Re: BTW.............

MISTERQCUE said:
[B I just can't seem to either make the lead voc sit up front in the mix while at the same time fit in the overall scheme of the recording.
Am I making any sense here!!?? [/B]
Click to expand...

The easiest way to make vocals sit up front is with compression. What are you using for compressors?
 
I use a $7000 signal path these days to record vocals. The complaints have gone away about vocals since then.

I am leary about the comments of not worrying about what the vocal sounds like while tracking, as long as the levels are correct. I would tend to turn that 180 degree's around! Sure, you don't want to distort the signal path (or maybe you do! sometimes I do with great results....it depends), but I don't sweat a vocal sitting at -20dB on the meters. HEADROOM in the recording chain is VERY important.

But what I am getting at is this. You are stuck with what you got on "tape". You need to capture the type of sound you want on "tape" with vocals. Heavy EQ at mix sounds like a crappy vocal recording with EQ applied, nothing more, nothing less. Over-used compression sounds like over-used compression. That is the way of it.

I have not seen ONE single mic in that mic list that would be my first, second, or third choice for a vocal recording. I have tried most of them, and have heard the results of the others, and was not terribly impressed with any of them for vocal recordings. That is not saying that ANY of those mics listed cannot be just the RIGHT mic for a particular singer. Any of them could be. I am just saying that none of them has a track record I have heard that compliments a majority of vocalists.

Hands down, for on a budget in mics, the AT 4050 is my work horse. The AKG 414 wins a lot of shots too. The AT 4033 is used a LOT. For some, the ADK TC-51 tube mic is silky and smooth, but to tell you the truth, the 797 Audio 998 toob mic is an outstanding sound for a bit less than $1k! ( http://www.797audio.com/product1.htm )

With vocals, it is ALL about the right mic. Preamps next. This is all assuming that the singer actually sounds somewhat appropriate for the song!!!

Ed
 
Q, with all due respect, other than the first two microphones on your list, I'd sell the rest of them and re-vamp my vocal microphone collection. Been there done that!

Chris
 
Thankyou very much to all of you!! Great advice & tips!!

my next question;

Male tenor, with decent voice, sings sans music.Vocs recorded on 1 track, EQ flat, no comping, no efx, nothing!!!.

Music is a neo-soul/jazz jammy requiring clear and spacious vocals
requiring a hint of delay and 'Verb. My basement studio contains
a FLAT 97.6 % soundproof voc booth.

Should I double track the voc's for a fuller sound and apply delay on 1 track and 'Verb on the other?
 
Can't hurt to have the double track - nothing says you have to use it. You may only end up using it in spots, like the chorus.
 
i've only got 1 vocal mic.

AT4033

1) when i want a warm throaty vocal sound, i place the mic at the vocalist chin level. the vocalist's head is pointed slightly downward.

2) when i want a powerful but not overly dark sound, i place the mic at the vocalist eye level. the vocalist head is pointed slightly upward.

3) when i want a breathy sound, i place the vocalist close to the mic pop filter. if i've got a good vocalist who knows how to turn away from the plosives, i take the vocal screen away.

4) when i want a more airy-distant sound (especially good for back vocals) i place the vocalist 3 feet (or occassionaly more) away from the mic. i can't really go more than 5 feet because my room isn't that large.

when i want warm and breathy, i combine 1 & 3.
 
My general vocal tips-

On weaker voices close mic. Dynamics are good for this.
Good singers give 'em more room.
Roll off the lows.
Compress liberally.
On the reverb roll off the lows and highs to avoid accenting sibilance. Use predelay to help keep the original track clear.

Avoid quick delays and chorus effects except to accent the big parts. They will ultimately create a more processed sound so use carefully.
 
Thx Tex! What is the recommendation for raspy-voiced vocalists
with a lotta bass in their voices? Should I also roll-off the low-end of that singers voc range and boost his mids for clarity?
 
Maybe yeah, but go easy on the mids. They're kind of tricky on a vocal. Very easy to overdo.

A little goes a long way.
 
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