More realistic sounding programmed drums?

Speedy VonTrapp

New member
First of all, I apologize if this is in the wrong forum, but I thought here would be as good a place as any for the question.

I have come to realize that programmed drums will never sound as good as a good drummer playing a nice kit when mic'd properly.

However, I am very limited with gear, and don't have access to a drum kit on a regular basis. Hardly ever, in fact. Plus, I'm not a drummer.

But, I can program a pattern sequencer to sound decent. (Pattern wise, I realize that it still doesn't sound like a real drum kit.)

Here is my question: Aside from the sample sounds being the largest bottleneck, what do you think about the following for making a more realistic drum kit sound:

Say I'm using Fruity Loops, and have a drum kit programmed for a certain song. I export each instrument to it's own track, then put into Cakewalk where I can control them in the overall song mix.

This is the normal method that I use for a simple demo type of song that I do for myself.

Would it be worth it if I leave some of the other instruments in each track instead of exporting the sounds clean?

Here's an example of what I mean:

Let's say the kick track. Instead of just exporting a wav of the kick pattern that I have by itself, I turn on the other tracks, also, but turn them way down, and apply a very slight delay to them. Will this simulate something of a realistic bleed? More like what a real kit might sound like. Where you'd inevitably get some delayed bleed into the kick mic from the crashes, or pick up some slight kick from the overheads.

Has anybody tried this? It seems like it would be a serious amount of time possibly wasted, trying to get this done, so I thought that I would ask about it before trying in case it was a totally moronic idea.

I'm not opposed to diving into it and giving it a shot, though, if it works. It seems like in theory that it might work. They'd still be programmed samples, but they might sound more realistic this way.

I'd rather have a drum kit and a drummer, but since I lack those 2 things, and want to record rock music, it's a bit rough for me. :) I don't have a budget to hire someone either, it's just for my own personal use here, so I'm not looking for anything like that. (Although an online collab wouldn't be out of the question.)

Thanks in advance for any and all replies to this question.

-Speedy
 
i dont know if this will help you, but you might want to check out band in a box from pgmusic.com. this package is used by lots of musicians , because it
lets you write songs qyuckly. you can quickly do a bed track of drums, keys, bass, guiitar or whatever instruments you choose. its a different approach to the multitrack recorder idea. as the name implies it builds a back up band in software. and the back up band can be different each time.
you might check this out , but i believe it even does fills if i remember.
it comes with a huge number of song styles. and third parties have developed other products.
its main plus is to get your song idea down fast. to get the drums sounding realistic, from reading what users do with it,,,you could output via a midi out on your pc for example to a high quality non cheesy midi sound module with drums in or a sampler for example with triggered high quality drum sounds.
using the sampler idea, if you use the right samples apparently you can get
quite life like drum sounds happening. as i said - its a different idea.
but one that has appeal to lots of musicians. a lot of cake users have used it in the past for example.
if you put in google search as i just did "band in a box drums" ....youll see loads of links come up including lots of third party products.
tons and tons of styles. including the ones that interest you.
just an idea.
 
try checking these guys out: http://www.betamonkeymusic.com/

i just bought a few of their sound fonts and i am very pleased with them. i use them for triggers sometimes, but you can sequence them in any sequencer that you want. they are worth way more than what you pay for!
 
I know that this might sound kind of weak, but I'm totally strapped for cash, and even $50 is something that I'm not willing to spend on just about anything right now, other than rent. ;)

And, if I had $100, I'd rather use it for a cheap mic pre, or something like that, etc.

But, I don't, so I'm really only able to try different approaches with what I already have.

I suppose that I'll probably end up testing my theory out, unless I get someone on here who says that they've tried it, and it just won't work, or something similar. And if I do, I'll try and post some before and after mp3 mixes to see what people think of it.

So, aside from spending money, what do you think?

Thanks for the link, and ideas, though guys! I checked them out, and once I can throw some extra cash at my setup, it's something that I'll definitely consider, for sure.

-Speedy
 
it's only $20 at beta monkey for their Drums Only CD. It's well worth the price, and you can sequence them. free ship as well
 
Thanks, Cloneboy.

That makes me feel like I'm on the right track there. I was afraid that I might be putting a lot of effort into something tha might not be worth it.

That was a good post, and was pretty much in line with what I was planning on trying. Plus, it included some good tips that I have seen before, but didn't come to mind at all here, like playing the drums through the PA, and room mic'ing that.

Good tips. Hopefully I'll be able to make it worth the effort, and I'll post something with a finished product.

-Speedy
 
I agree with enferno. I've got 3 different cds from betamonkey and they all sound good. I used to use FruityLoops with one-shots sequenced on each track, but they always ended up sounding mechanical and just fake in general. the loops from betamonkey gel nicely and sound pretty natural.
 
In all honesty, I've gotten some GREAT sounding drums by sampling old records. There's a ton of music from the 1930's to the late 70's that have really nice breaks and drum solos that you can chop up and edit if you choose.

I try not to mess with drum loops and kits that can be purchased because lots of people use them and frankly the ones that I've heard aren't really that good.
 
I don't know if it's possible...or even if i'm really helping, but on thing that i realized seem to really help drum tracks is to put some "real" percussion over the top of the tracks in areas. For example (and this is something i do in almost all my songs), record a live shaker or tamborine...bongos...whatever, and splice that in to parts. Thats usually where the canned drums suck, and it helps it not sound so ridged...just a thought.
 
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