Monitoring with headphones

joey2000

joey2000

New member
Everywhere I read that in the end you should do this with speakers, but headphones can be a useful alternate way to listen. Has anyone ever monitored only with headphones? I'm thinking this is workable with "open" ones. Frankly I'd prefer to avoid the expense of speakers (excuse me, "studio monitors") for various reasons.
 
Hey,

I'm sure there are other reasons but the main reason I recommend against it is for perception of stereo image - The natural combining of l+r audio.
Maybe stating the obvious but a man deaf in the left ear will hear all the component parts of sgt peppers stereo mixes on speakers,
but the same man will not hear it all on headphones.

That's really it, for me. On cans you get an exaggerated perception of width, a misleading representation of the stuff down the centre, and no real information about how l+r info interact with each other.

That's not to say you can't get a decent mix on headphones, but I think you'd have to do it with that stuff in mind.
I usually recommend at least checking on speakers once in a while. Even if they're shit PC speakers they'll still flag up andy issues with stereo image, the level of central information, l+r phase etc.

Hope that's useful.
 
yeah the plugins and crossfeed for headphone mixing I think helps...it simulates how our ears hear in stereo/mono both ears hearing both speakers.so with headphones you kind of want the same effect/ mix of the L&R where as headphones can be too much stereo separation....so the cross feed thing is good,imo. I have a free plug that I stuck on my master buss...its kind of like a mono button but more stereo-ish.

ive read pro's with real money made on headphone mixes and working in a portable setup and one whose even grammy stuff with a small UA-interface and plugs and headphoned a mix. ("headphoned" is a gearhead phrase not yet accepted by Websters Dictionary Committee)

anything is possible is my belief....the billboard top chart with a MXL 990 lead vocal mic etc...or a Platinum XTC using a Squier guitar as the main axe....

is it possible? yes. .....can anyone make it work? probably not.

I had a reduced my hr room to a closet and this obviously would mean a headphone mix is probably better. so I grabbed some Beyer DT something and a Grace Headphone amp to see. My verdicts still out because I have another headphone amp thats really really close to the Grace which is really pro-well done stuff. A lot of interfaces have crap headphone amps and are so unconcerned with the headphone amp they dont even mention the specs.

as for headphones...I was just reading the beatles used shit headphones for tracking all those sessions and they sounded horrible and are discontinued.... for mixing today theres some nice OpenBacks with the sky high price as the limit.

Id prefer a high end headphone amp + hiend headphones for mixing over a closet-acoustically crap room in theory.
But Ive not made any great mixes yet and if the room is done right theres the obvious first place choice.

I cant think of the billboard tracks done on headphones but if you search for hours you'll find them probably.
Im not even sure anyone uses speakers for playback anymore...most consumers are smartphone and headsets right?
car stereos......hifi home consumer systems seemed to die out and faded away.

add: Dee Speaker - emulator of studio monitoring aka crossfeed
DeeSpeaker FREE Nearfield Monitor Emulator VST/AU Plugin

this might be worth a listen and has crossfeed and dual headphone amps. 16/44.1....if that isnt a big deal.
Behringer MONITOR2USB | Sweetwater
 
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I do it with both, but mainly not on headphones. Especially if i can't get a grib on something i reach for the headphones for some more concentration. And if finished for extra checking.

Do mind. Good headphones is a must then offcourse.
 
joey2000 said:
Everywhere I read that in the end you should do this with speakers, but headphones can be a useful alternate way to listen. Has anyone ever monitored only with headphones? I'm thinking this is workable with "open" ones. Frankly I'd prefer to avoid the expense of speakers (excuse me, "studio monitors") for various reasons.
Click to expand...

You should have one 8-inch, or better, 3-way box and probably a couple higher-Ohm semi and open back fones with decent amps. With specialized types of monitoring , like mixing and mastering, it will be easier for engineers to design boxes that offer the features needed
 
the whole monitoring thing is a wild read. the EMI had the Beatles mixes and many other bands going through one speaker for a large majority of their work, (the mastering booth up a few stairs up) and mixes completed in a short amount of time, hours, and weeks for an album. granted they tracked perfectly well and had talent etc..etc.. but alot of those old recordings still sound good today, very good actually.

so theres some data that maybe mono is do-able, this removes the variables. also mono is known to be very consistent from system to system on playback which removes more variables depending on what you want to do with the song..the end user playback system will have less impact.

somewhere in the 80's the wide spread trick became the norm and everyones been doing it that way ever since I guess?
 
It helps to have four speaker when mixing QUAD instead of two, and fones are just useful fidelity checks
 
It's fine to spend time and effort mixing on headphones AS LONG as your audience will be listening on headphones too. If they will be listening on speakers (speaking from experience here) the problems seem to be that on speakers you will have lots of things towards the left, the right our centre. I do lots with strings and tend to pan my instruments like in a traditional orchestra - violin1s on my left, 2s, then violas and cellos going right gradually and then the basses - but on headphones when this sounds right, on speakers, the two violins merge, and the violas appear to be more centre - not as even as on speakers. The other thing is that when you spend time adding depth into the stereo field with subtle extra reverbs or delays, the amount of reverb that is right on the headphones is always too much or just not there on speakers. I've never been able to predict the result and adjust for it. I also find that the bass content of my headphone mixes is too much - sometimes much too much. The other thing that causes me trouble is trying to slot sounds into their own little area in the mix. Like a flute line in a busy song. You settle it in on the headphones and playing it - like I did last week - on a BIG PA made the damn thing leap out of the mix and smack me on the head.

I also produce lots of tracks for performers, and if they wear in-ears, then I MUST mix on in-ears or it's wrong. One of the people I work with often refuses in ears, and always uses wedges on stage - and to get the track balance right for him needs me to mix on an indexical wedge - not even my studio monitors, because his wedge has a certain 'sound'. We use personal mixers for the individual balances, but he often says that the track has too much this, or not enough that - when on speakers it's great - but not so hot on his monitor.

Headphones do work, as long as you know what people will hear on speakers will be quite different.
 
" Frankly I'd prefer to avoid the expense of speakers (excuse me, "studio monitors") for various reasons."

Wouldn't everyone Joey? !! The fact that ALL the top studios and virtually all the guys here DO spend a lot of money on monitors and room treatment should tell you that headphones are not the answer.

Yes, as my youngers and betters have all said, much can be done on headphones but the biggest drawback is the totally 'wrong' stereo perspective.
There is however another failing, loudness or to be more precise, 'calibration'. You really should KNOW the level being produced by your monitoring system (because ears are not linear with level v frequency) but how can you know that on cans?

There is always a tendency to listen too loudly and will headphones not only is it easy to get >100dB levels you can easily be acclimated to them and there is no one to yell "Turn that fekker down!"

So, even if you cannot yet afford 'proper' monitors, SOME kind of stereo speaker setup is preferable to cans. Could be a hi fi rig in another room (burn a CD) or even one of the better PC active speaker systems. I have had a pair of 'Surf Sound' speakers amping the computer in my living room for several years. 4" bass, 1" tweeter. wooden box about 12x5x6", around £30 iirc from Maplin. They do not go very loud but that is a good thing and they give very acceptable Radio3. I have a pair of Tannoy 5As for the music work in another room but the musician has gone!

Dave.
 
Another thing to remember about tracks mixed by pros on cans, is that they went to mastering, and you are not going to find much headphone love in those places. And with easily tweakable mixes thanks to the DAW, adjustments a week later when someone realizes how obnoxiously loud that flute solo really is has become simple. The other thing you absolutely can't get on headphones is listening off axis. Besides the driver's seat in a car, not too many people are sitting in the sweet spot when hearing music, things like imaging and reverb levels can be very misleading when you hear something from the side of a room versus over perfectly aligned headphones. When you walk into a party and some great song is rocking the house, it sounds like that song no matter where you are standing, that is a good mix....
 
In headphones, or sitting too close to your monitors, you'll tend to mix vocals and other centered stuff too hot. Your whole centered vs. panned perspective is off. Using the mono button can somewhat offset the effect.

On the other hand, there are things that happen in headphones that don't really show up in speakers. Panned things with content below 300Hz can be pretty disturbing in headphones, so that's something good to check for. You can pan LF things, but it's good to high pass the difference channel since so many people use earbuds.
 
Okay. A couple of points:

Besides distortion of the stereo image, there are also differing psychoacoustic effects of having the sound source plastered right up against the ear or even inside it with earbuds. That's the other big reason people advocate mixing on speakers not headphones.

That said, if you take some time, you can teach yourself what things need to sound like on your headphones to sound good on a wide variety of playback devices. Do a mix on your phones. Make a CD copy and play it on your home music centre, in your car, on your audiophile friend's high end system, etc. Make an MP3 copy and try it on a variety of portable players. On all these playbacks, make a note of what you like and don't like then, bearing these notes in mind, go back and do another mix. Keep going until you learn the sound you need on the headphones to sound good elsewhere.

It's worth noting that you need to go through a similar procedure when you get new monitor speakers--but you'll find the learning curve a lot shorter.

And NOTHING will fix the stereo image issue--well, other than limiting yourself to binaural recording when can be a lot of fun but not necessarily for music!
 
Without a doubt.......headphones will fool you to some degree or other and you will not be able to correct for that unless you put your mix on speakers anyway. Headphones are great for getting deeper into the sounds on your tracks in detail. You can pick out smaller issues that build up to bigger issues in your mix if left uncorrected. And of course......almost everyone uses headphones as another mix reference. By the way........crap headphones are killers and only make you chase your tail over and over again. A decent pair of open backs like the Senn HD-600 are a good tool and you can mix a long way with them. But they're $$$$$. I have a pair and the hype about them is honest........but not like speakers that are set up right and in a decent room.
 
I use fones, but not for mixing. I do use one set for the mud region in mixing. . I bought them because buyers were complaining they lacked bass. So, I knew they must be flat. hahah I like lean bass anyway.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
In headphones, or sitting too close to your monitors, you'll tend to mix vocals and other centered stuff too hot. Your whole centered vs. panned perspective is off.
Click to expand...

I can personally attest to this. I'll switch back and forth between monitors and headphones and the lead vocal is at always different levels.

Speakers are better for mixing. BUT, I've heard some decent mixes done on headphones, so not impossible. As others have suggested, if you mix on cans, be sure to double check elsewhere, take notes, apply corrections.
 
The hd 600 are up +4 in the mud while my $100 is basically 0 from 1k and falling off at 100Hz. The roll-off on both look the same but the HD is +4 over my cheap shit (basically

I'm just saying look for tools that help, and muddy bass is a problem almost universally. The HD should be accomplished enough, at higher Ohm, that I doubt that they get mushy, but there is still a broad range that is hyped
 
Even with my new more expensive monitors and I believe adequately treated mixing room, I still go to my headphones/van/SUV and make changes. For me there is no one singular reference source that is the end all. Not yet anyway.

But it sure gets closer quicker with experience. Maybe when I retire at 98 years of age I may have all the answers for myself. Surely won't be the answer for everyone else.... :)
 
Most of my mixing are done on headphones, before I'm done with the mix step I make some adjustments (if necessary) using my monitors. Then in mastering I usually start with headphones for a quick ballpark, then back to the monitors for the final say.

Common theme here... monitors aren't used most of the time, but they are used as the critical reference point before anything is considered final.

I mostly fell into this method of mixing/mastering because I can't always use my monitors when I want [shared house, time of day, etc].

You need to get good at knowing your headphones as others have mentioned. I adjust partly based on what I know the track/mix will sound like on the monitors, not relying solely on what the headphones are telling me. I can get things sounding pretty close to 'done' with just headphones now, after a lot of practice.
 
Back in the day...way back....I used headphones a lot when mixing, but I stopped doing that about...20 years ago or more.
I think I've used them a maybe couple of times in the last few years to check a sound source for something odd going on during the mix stage...or if I'm running some kind of signal tests on the equipment. Otherwise, 99% of my headphone use during tracking.

I just don't care for the totally skewed mix balance you get when switching from headphones to monitors, it's a big difference...and I just prefer the sound of music from speakers, that are wide spaced and distant (about 5.5' sides on the equilateral triangle) compared to what I see with most home-rec setups....which is mainly due to ITB mixing, that puts only a computer screen on the desk in most cases, so people stick their monitors on either side, and end up with like 2-3' only between the monitors and the mix position...which totally fucks up the image perspective, same as with headphones.

I can see doing edits and sorta pre-mix processing stuff with the headphones...but I wouldn't like having them on my head for any long period of time, no matter what I was doing...'cuz you kinda get "tunnel hearing" when you do that. :D
 
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