Mixing and tracking preferences

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dmbfan1981

New member
I had pretty elaborate question and much of the answer is based on personal preference and taste but i thought it would be a good reference for all of the newbies on here to get some ideas or pointers. on a basic 4-piece band rock song ( rhythm guitar lead guitar drums, bass and vocals.) how would you mix the tracks and how many of each would you record. lets assume, just for simplicity, that each track was played continuously through the song and there were no dubbed in fills.

EXAMPLE:

Rhythm guitar doubled. 1 track panned hard left one track panned hard right and slightly offset.

Lead guitar- one track panned 15 degrees right

bass - right up the middle one track


drums (one track of each) hi hat panned 45degrees left
snare panned 45 degrees left
kick straight up the middle
tom panned 90 degrees right
other cymbals panned from 90 degrees left to 90 degrees right.

I know that this is a very quick and CRAP example. but i just wanted to illustrate what i was asking for. feel free to elaborate on different techniques for extra fatness to a track or for spatial effects etc. Thanks.
 
Here's a visual of what I'd do...

Far left Centre Far right

Rhythm Guitar: Lead Guitar:
- 4-8 mics mixed from one pass - 4-8 mics one pass
Bass:
DI and Mic mixed together

Drums:
Left OH Kick right OH
Tom1 Tom2
Room left Snare Room right

Vox:
Backing 1 Lead Backing 2

Mics/DI's used:
guitar: SM57, e609s, MD421, M201TG, Oktava MK012(x2), various LDC's
Bass: mics-D112, MD 421; DI-Radial JDI or J48
Drums: kick-D112; snare-M201TG(top)SM57(bottom); high tom(s)-SM57; Low tom-MD421; OH-Oktava MK012(x2); room-various LDC's
Vox: Rode NTK, AT4040 or SP C1

I think the diagram helps see it...

About guitars...I think rather than double the part, record the same part with multiple mics to get the thick wall-like blended sound - then bounce the blend to a single track...unless you want the same part done with a different guitar/amp combo..then do multiple takes - but then blend and bounce the now 8-16 mics down to one track.

By the way, my experience has led me to this method - it's the best I've used - But in no way do I think everyone does or should use this method. I like the results I get. Try it out and see what you get!

Jacob
 
On the last recording I did, I used the following methodology. The band was a 3 piece punk/alternative band (not of the "radio punk" variety). Console is an Allen & Heath System8 24x8x2. Recorder is an Alesis HD24.

I set up drums in the room and miked up the kit, a 5 piece Pearl, using close mics and a near-coincident pair of overheads about 6 feet off the ground and about a foot in front of the kit. Overheads were Oktava 012s. Close mics were SM57 on snare, Oktava 219s on rack toms, A-T ATM25 on floor tom, Beyer TGX50 on kick resonant side, and Beyer 422 on kick beater side. Each overhead was bussed to its own track, snare to a track, beater side kick ducked to the snare drum and both kicks bussed to a track, and the three toms bussed to a stereo pair with a stereo gate and light compression.

Guitar amp (JCM 800) was put in the other room and miked with an e609 Silver and bussed to its own track. Bass was DI through a SansAmp Bass Driver and run directly into the recorder. Guitar and bass were recorded as scratch tracks.

After drum tracks were laid down, we did bass tracks. Bass was a Fender Precision into the SansAmp. The DI out was run to the board and patched into a compressor at about 3:1. The unaffected parallel output was sent to a silverface 50w Fender Bassman through a 2x15 cab. The cab was miked on-axis about 6 inches from the grille and halfway between the edge and cone. DI and mic tracks were bussed to a single channel on the recorder.

Next we did guitar tracks. First we used a LTD Eclipse (EC-1000, I think), into a 50w JCM 800 through a Marshall 4x12 cab. I put an SM 57 and e609 on the cab, both off-axis and about 3 inches from the grille. I recorded a take using each mic, and sent each one to its own track. Then we swapped the JCM 800 out for the Bassman and recorded another track using one of the mics, the 57 I think, but I don't recall for sure.

Following the guitar, we did lead vocals. We settled on the Oktava 219, liking it a little bit more than a MXL v67. We did each song in a single take all the way through, and then punched in on the lines/phrases we felt needed redoing. The vocals weren't horribly demanding in terms of tempo, so this method worked pretty well for us.

Backup vocals were done with the v67. We did one take, just going through the song and punching in where we needed to. One song had "gang vocals", so we did two tracks of me and the drummer shouting these.

That concluded tracking the songs. On Thursday I'm going to be reamping the drum tracks through the PA system into a room with 25' or so sloped wood ceiling and wood floor, and throw a mic up to hopefully recreate some artificial "room" sound. Total track count when its said and done will be 16 tracks.

When we mix, it'll be pretty basic, done "out of the box" on the A&H. I've already thrown together a quick rough mix. Drums were bussed to two pairs. One pair was squashed with a stereo compressor and brought up underneath the other pair for a little more oomph to the drums. The three guitar tracks were panned JCM 800 tracks left and right, Bassman center, and bussed to a stereo pair. All vocals were bussed to a stereo pair, and also sent to a delay via Aux send. Delay return was brought up on a separate channel. Not a whole lot will be changed from the rough mix, just some things that we've noted that need to be adjusted, mainly level adjustments, drum ambience will be added, etc etc.

This was my first full "session" using my new stuff, namely the console and HD24, but its a pretty good method, I felt, and I'll probably stick to similar methods in the future (unless the band wants to do things differently, of course). I'm sure this is probably more than you were asking for, but I'm still pretty pleased with how things came out and like to talk about it.
 
Don't get on my case for starting out with the usual caveats that newbs dislike but are in reality unavoidable:

The final mix structure of *any* song should be dependant upon the content of the song. A good engineer has to hear the song first before he can make any real decisions on recording or mixing strategy. The personality of the band, the genre of the music, the arrangement of the song, the tone of the lyrics, the tone of the instruments, etc. all have to (or at least should) be taken into account when deciding on the engineering.

With that understanding treated as a given for the rest of this post, though, there are a couple of very general comments I can add to the discussion:

First, I have noticed in these forums over the past few days an uptick in the number of times someone has mentioned hard-panning instruments hard left or hard right or both. I personally only very rarely ever pan any dry track hard to the sides. Rather, the hard sides are usually reserved for the "room" itself, either residuals from live distant miking or added artificial reverb or delay. Exceptions are made for special effect mixing of instruments, but I am a minimalist when it comes to that kind of trickery.

Second, I tend to keep the rhythm section (bass and drums) in a fairly natural stereo image confined within ~ +/- 30% of center. Kick and bass are near center, but offset from each other slightly (e.g. one at +5 and one at -5) to give them a little subconscious seperation and to leave a small slot for lead vocal. The rest of the drums kit is a natural stereo spread from the perspective of the audience.

This leaves the areas of the pan stage between the drums in the center and the "room" on the edges for the rest of the instruments and vocalists. Though often there will be plenty of overlap with the drums; e.g. the rest of the band could occupy anywhere from 20% on up to 75-80% pan, left or right.

Where the individual instruments get placed within these areas of the stage is widely variable, but it's usually wise at this point to try and acheive a balanced seperation in the dimension of frequency. For example, if the snare is dominant and is, say, R10%, if there is a lead guitar that shares many important sound formants and other characteristics with the snare, that lead should probably go somewhere on the left side so as not to clash with the snare or overload one side with similar sounds.

Also, if rhythm guitar is doubled, I'll mic the two parts differently and/or use a little counterbalance EQ on the parts to ensure the two parts have distinct and complimentary characteristics. (Preferably the two parts are played on different guitars, but that's not always a option.) Whether the doubled parts are laid on each other or are spread L/R depends totally upon the context of the song; I choose whichever method "feels right" for that song.

HTH,

G.
 
most of my personal recordings are quite consistent in their instrumentation and production.......every song differs, but hey, there you have it. this is my general "jumping off point" for my stuff and my stuff alone. mixing other people's stuff will vary widely.

Electric Rhy 1, hard left, delay hard right. usually multiple mics on the amp, summed to mono.

Electric Rhy 2, hard right, delay hard left--and different guitar/amp--usually multiple mics on the amp, summed to mono.

Acoustic Rhy, usually recorded in stereo, summed to mono (although sometimes recorded in mono), panned wherever it fits--usually opposite keys. caveat: this will differ if the acoustic is the "dominant" rhythm component.

Organ/Rhodes/keys, recorded in stereo, summed to mono (unless needed for big L/R slides down keys), panned wherever it fits--usually opposite the acoustic.

Bass, mono in center or slightly offset from kick (ala glen above)

kick and snare, mono in center....or kick slightly offset from bass (ala glen above)

OH's (assuming stereo), usually about 10 and 2, very rarely hard panned. if you listen to a drumset from in front, does it really take up the space from all the way left to all the way right? or is more of a single point? usually, though, i record OH in mono, and it's in the middle.

drum close mics, tucked in around the OH spread.

Vox, mono in center. reverb to one side, delay to the other.

Lead Guitar, usually mono in center, but may be hard panned depending on if there are multiple leads (ala Allman Bros).

Mandolin, recorded in mono, panned center. in cases with "dueling mandos", i'll hard pan L/R. reverb to one side, delay to the other, often opposite of what i did on the lead guitar.

i usually pan reverbs and delays to one side or another, and almost always directly opposite the dry signal. i use a LOT more delays than reverbs these days. on a "lead' i'll put the dry in the middle, reverb on one side and the delay on the other.

i mix EVERYTHING in mono. i do this for phase coherency and to make sure that everything sums well to mono (for listening on little boomboxes, etc).

once i have everything kickin in mono, i then flip over to stereo and it's amazing how much better it sounds than if i had started mixing in stereo. things "tuck themselves in" a lot better in mono.....especially when you start talking about multiple delay and reverbs.

compression, delay and reverb settings, room reverbs, track mults, and other various effects.....that's a whole 'nother treatise in and of itself (and can really make or break a mix).


but that's it, essentially. :D


cheers,
wade
 
jabulani jonny said:
Wade, can you go into a little detail on how you get your stereo signals mixed in mono? thx.
Click to expand...

sure. the output from just about all mics (except for a few "special" mics) is mono in nature. so understand that all the "tracks" i'm talking about here are mono.

usually i'll put 2 mics on an amp, or a stereo pair on an acoustic, etc., and record each of these to their own track. then in the software (or on the mixing board) i'll send the outputs of (sum) these individual channels to a Group channel (bus). i'll pan the basic channels so they work well together within that Group bus.

this group bus will typically be mono, and i'll use that Group bus to determine where the "instrument" ultimately gets placed within the mix.

(note: when working with multiple mics on one source, be sure to be careful about the phase relationships between them)


rarely do i have individual channels going to the "master" (output) bus.....usually my master bus is made up of a number of Group channels.

why use group busses? well, if you've got 2 mics on every guitar and there are 3 guitars, that's 6 tracks. and then you've got 10 mics on the drums, and a DI and mic on the bass, that's 18 tracks. and then all your other shenanigans. MUCH easier to bus the guitars to a couple group busses and the drums to 1 stereo bus, and you've ultimately only got maybe 10 "channels" to worry about in the mix, rather than 20 or 30 (or more) individual ones. i've been in that habit from doing live sound. far easier to "pull the drums down" on 1 fader than having to deal with 6. :p


does that make any sense? i hope that's what you were looking for. :D


if you were asking how i monitor in mono, most software and mixing consoles have a "mono" button on the master bus which sums the L/R sides into mono. the "trick" to this is making sure that your 2 monitors are running at exactly the same level (use a dB meter and 1khz sine wave to test), or only use one speaker. if your kickin stereo mix collapses when you sum to mono, you've got some work to do. :p


cheers,
wade
 
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