Mid-side and Blumlein, Condensers or Ribbons?

D

Dantheman06

New member
What would be the best microphone type to buy for mid-side and Blumlein if I already have a pair of small condensers OKTAVA MK-012 with cardioid and omni capsules? It would be for recording choir-organ in church, small jazz ensemble, piano etc. Should I buy two large condensers or two ribbon type microphones to complement the OKTAVA?

RØDE Microphones - NT2-A
sE Electronics - Voodoo Ribbons

I do not have money to buy microphones more expensive than a Rode NT2A or a Se Electronics VR1 ribbon. Rode is a reputable company and the VR1 ribbons would make good use of the CL1 Cloudlifter preamp that I am planning to buy for my Shure SM7B. What I like about the VR1 ribbon is its price and the fact that it has a flat frequency response extending to 20 Khz. With a flat frequency plot extending to 20 Khz, in my price range, this ribbon would be a flexible and transparent tool. The Rode NT2a is flat enough, low noise and have high spl of 147 db with the pad engaged. Oh…one important thing is that I cannot stand harsh high frequencies…
These rode NT2a and SE VR1 ribbons (or other similar priced) would be occasionally used for vocal. I have a rode NT1 (the new one), a Shure SM7B and a SM58 as main vocal microphones.
What do you think I should buy for mid-side and Blumlein? Ribbon or condenser?

Thank you for your answers,

Dan
 
bouldersoundguy said:
The ribbons I've used have asymmetrical figure-8 patterns. I wouldn't want that for mid-side.
Click to expand...

I think that the SE electronics VR1 has symetrical pattern, at least according to its technical data sheet. A ribbon would have a symetrical response if it is built in a symetric way

Assuming a symetric VR1 ribbon what should I buy for blumlein and mid-side?

Dan
 
You need two figure 8 mics for a blumlein pair. The octava's won't have a place in that set up.

Forget the ribbon. I would get the rode for M/S and another one for blumlein.
 
Farview said:
Forget the ribbon. I would get the rode for M/S and another one for blumlein.
Click to expand...

Interesting!!

The SE electronics VR1 should not be too dark like an old fashion ribbon and its high frequency, up to 20 Khz, must be smooth. Why not using ribbons if you can get one that is flat up to 18-20 Khz and reasonably priced?

Thank you for shar
 
Frequency response plots only tell you so much. You have to hear a mic on a given source to know if it's right.

The polar plot does appear to be symmetrical.
 
A couple of decent multi-patterns would be my choice simply because of the possibilities for other work. For this kind of work, I found a Chinese stereo mic, modelled on the old Neumann/AKG approach of two multi-pattern mics sitting on top of each other in one housing. I had to buy 5 of them to get them manufactured as they're not popular, but I took the chance after having a single version as a sample, and I sold the other 4. This was five years ago - not sure if they're still even being advertised.
 
Have a look at the Se Electronics X1R for an affordable symetrical ribbon, I use one regularly and it does a more than decent job on most sources - quite a neutral sound too.

It's about half the price of the VR1 and would possibly do a better job of Blumlein and M/S (as it's got a symetrical response). It all depends on the source and the mic being a good match, as has already been said.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
The ribbons I've used have asymmetrical figure-8 patterns. I wouldn't want that for mid-side.
Click to expand...

Strictly speaking you don't want an asymmetrical pattern for a true Blumlein pair either. Although, so long as the two mics are identically asymmetrical, it can make for a very useful variation on a textbook Blumlein pattern.

I've heard it argued that since Alan Blumlein developed his stereo mic'ing technique with ribbon mics those should be the go-to mic when choosing to use a Blumlein array, but as with many things in audio, I think the real answer is "Use whatever achieves what you're striving for." I've gotten excellent results with Blumlein pair using matched dual-diaphragm condensers set to figure-8 as well as standard bidirectional ribbons (Cole 4038).
 
Bob Ross said:
Strictly speaking you don't want an asymmetrical pattern for a true Blumlein pair either. Although, so long as the two mics are identically asymmetrical, it can make for a very useful variation on a textbook Blumlein pattern.
Click to expand...

That's why I left that open. Even if it weren't technically correct at least the whole array would be symmetrical if matching lobes faced toward the source. It would be consistent in a way that using an asymmetrical figure-8 as a side mic would not.
 
Thank you all!

It seems that most persons who gave me opinions think that I should buy first a multi-pattern to do mid-side recording with my OKTAVA MK12 as the mid , or maybe my rode NT-1 could be used as the mid with the multipattern condenser as the side. It is not too clear why I should not buy the VOODO VR1 especially that the VR1 has a symmetrical figure8 pattern, is quite flat and has an extended frequency response to 20 Khz but I agree that overall a multipattern would be more useful.

My problem is that I trust the quality of the VR1 ribbon, I am pretty sure that it will not be shrill, overly bright, thin, or harsh in the high frequencies. This is because of past work experiences I know very well the technology used for ribbon mic. But for the multipattern condenser I really don’t know which one to buy especially that I am VERY INTOLERANT to harshness and overly bright microphones, aside of the overly positive reviews some mentioned that:

SE2200aii and AT2050 are too bright
the cad M179 is cheap and thin
the Rode NT2-a is sibilant and harsh in the high frequencies.
Avantone CK7’s frequency response is far from being flat when used as a figure 8.

For these reasons I am considering the following:
The AKG P420
P420 - HIGH-PERFORMANCE DUAL-CAPSULE TRUE CONDENSER MICROPHONE | AKG Acoustics
or the studio project CS5
The Studio Projects CS5
http://studioprojects.com/pdf/cs5_polar.pdf

I am right that the AKG P420 and Studio projects would be my best buy? How is the AKG P420 compared to the Studio Project CS5?
Thank you for all your help
Daniel
 
I have done a lot of MS recording.

My first choice is a fully symmetrical single diaphragm condenser mic. - IE: Sennheiser MKH 30.

My own MS rigs are the MKH 40/30 combination.

If you have a low budget - the Ambient ATE 208 EMESSER is also a single diaphragm fig-8 and would be my second choice, this clips nicely to almost any SDC mid. mic. with the Rycote back-to-back clips.

If you wanted flexibility and decided to go for a switchable-pattern mic., then the Gefell UMT 70S would be my first choice - the Georg Neumann M7 capsule has a single backplate, so the two diaphragms are closer together than most switchable-pattern mics that put two separate cardioid capsules back-to-back, and has a very good fig-8 pattern. Also, although it's an LDC, the head basket is small, so you can get the mid mic. much closer to the side mic. to minimise any space anomolies. There is a special Rycote back-to-back clip available for this with a slightly increased separation than the standard clip.

I hope this helps.
 
Thank you john,

It tells me how much I should put aside to buy good sounding Equipment!! I could not buy anything more expensive than the Rode NT2a. I can spend about $500 canadian or $400 US. Having only a small budget I need to optimize my spending.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top