mjbphotos
Moderator
Consider changing your MO and record the guitar first, vocals separately. Not only gives you the opportunity to use 2 mics on the guitar but do give separate space for the guitar and vocals - no bleed.
Which mics should I use to record acoustic guitar?
- Thread starter BlackSquire
- Start date
Consider changing your MO and record the guitar first, vocals separately. Not only gives you the opportunity to use 2 mics on the guitar but do give separate space for the guitar and vocals - no bleed.
rocknrollstar
New member
Yeah I think it's going to have to be this way - I used to record this way anyway but it was to get a more "live" sound - I've got a few days off song, going to try SDC at neck/soundhole join and LDC out at bit, aimed sorta bridge-ish. Then double track if needed - it's driving me nuts, but if you're failing you're trying I guess.
Muddy T-Bone
New member
I use a 4040 on acoustic alot. Great mic for that. I've used it mic'ing the neck, and the bridge on different occasions, depending on the sound I'm after.
Sometimes I go with an AT PRO37 on the neck with 4040 on bridge (not my favorite combo), or believe it or not, contrary to popular SDC wisdom, I'll use a c414 along with the 4040. Yes, 2 LDC's.
Sometimes I go with an AT PRO37 on the neck with 4040 on bridge (not my favorite combo), or believe it or not, contrary to popular SDC wisdom, I'll use a c414 along with the 4040. Yes, 2 LDC's.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
A couple of things:
In your thread with the Soundcloud clips you mention that you find the guitar sound a bit sharp. Personally, I like acoustic that way but many people like a less crisp sound. Try a good dynamic instead of a condenser and see if that suits you better.
Second, you mention being up at the junction of the neck/soundhole join. Experiment with moving away from the soundhole an inch or two at a time--you'll be surprised how much difference the proximity of the soundhole makes.
Third, a technique I've used to to record a guide track with guitar and vocal at the same time, then do extra recordings of guitar and vocal playing along with the guide track. It can sometimes give a more natural, semi-live sound if you play along with yourself.
If you do manage to do a "two mic" recording of guitar, many DAWs (I'm not sure what you use) have an effect called "stereo expander" or similar. Instead of panning guitar to one side and voice to the other (which sounds a bit un-natural to me) try something like this so the guitar sound "goes wide" then put the voice dead centre. You may like it or hate it...but worth a try!
Finally (and I never thought I'd say this) but your recording (to my ears) is a bit dry, particularly on vocals but on guitar too. I's add a sparing amount to reverb to simulate room ambience.
Well, you DID ask for suggestions!
rocknrollstar
New member
Words of wisdom right there, RnRStar.
Haha - the first time anybody has said I've said anything remotely wise.
Hmm, I've got an PG57 mic by Shure I might try then (yes it is called PG57 not SM57 - actually been quite crap every other time I've used it, but a poor man blames his tools so I'll give it a go)
Ahhh I see, so still at the soundhole/neck join, but further out? I'm quite close at the moment (close as I can get actually) mainly because I wanted to avoid room noise (bedroom is what I record in, very limited space so it's not by choice unfortunately) my plan is to experiment with all of this tomorrow starting w SDC + LDC 2 mic acoustic, maybe even double track it as well.
I use Ableton Live - never heard of a stereo expander but I'll do some research and see if it has one/can find a free one just to mess about with at first.
Yes I've been messing around with reverb - I done some old recordings and I'm always hesitant with reverb as it's so easy to get carried away with it and make things sound cheap, but I am aware that is probably a large part of what is missing to these records, to glue the voice and guitar together so to speak. Any tips for reverb/general pitfalls I should be aware of that most people miss?
You're right, I did ask for suggestions. A big post of detail is what I wanted and I'd like to thank you for listening to the song and taking the time to type the above information
much appreciated.Sorry for the late response thread, recent festivities have kept me away from the computer. As a side note: Happy New Year folks
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
Nope...sorry if I wasn't clear. Stay close to the guitar (especially with something like a PG57) but move slightly up the neck away from the sound hole. Go a little at a time and see if you can hear/like the difference. Conventional wisdom is that the mic should go above the 12th fret but I'd play with various positions between there and the sound hole (when you use only one mic).
I sounds like you already have the biggest pitfall in mind--using too much! However, with close miking in a less than perfect room, a bit of reverb to replace the room tone you're trying to get rid of by close miking can open up the sound and make it more natural. It also blends the voice and guitar by putting you in the same acoustic space (even if an artificial one!).
rocknrollstar
New member
I've just finished some x2 mic recording acoustic guitar today. My ears hurt at the moment but I'm going to have a listen later and see what I think. I also double-tracked things just to see what the effect is/to see if I can get the thickness, but not have that chorus-y acoustic sound I've been trying to avoid. Should be interesting.
One thing I did notice straight away as I have the mic at a pointing down angle towards the neck and it was a bit less sharp, so I'm optimistic.
I've read some Sound on Sound articles re: reverb and I'm starting to understand things a bit more. Plan is later on to try get the guitars sounding like they're in a room - reverbs on the sends and will try use x2 different reverbs for guitar and vocals just to break them up a bit so to speak.
Why did nobody tell me music production was so much harder than songwriting? haha - thanks for the response Bobbsy, it's good to get some clarity. Sound production/recording is quite daunting.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
And I don't blame you. I absolutely hate chorus on acoustic guitar. It's like being forced to overdose on liquid sugar.
Ha ha, that's part of the initiation into the dark arts.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
Some find it really easy and it seems to come naturally. I'm not one of them ! I don't have a problem coming up with pieces and arranging. It's putting it all together in a way that makes a coherent whole, with all the parts working and contributing, yet making sense, that's my problem ! If it was just guitar or keyboard, bass and drums and a vocal, I'd have less problem. But my imagination makes it hard for me and has to throw in everything + the kitchen sink !
The Tagbo orchestra. rocknrollstar
New member
Pretty good description actually - a friend of mine puts Chorus on acoustic guitar all the time and it went he asked me to say why I didn't like it, I could only say "it makes me hear the NO feeling."
Yeah the songwriting side I'm fine with - getting everything to sit in a mix is where I'm struggling, but I've been writing for 8 yrs and mixing for less than half that so I'll give myself the benefit of doubt and say it's all experience.
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
When I first got a chorus pedal, I was so thrilled to have something that could alter the sounds of whatever was fed into it that I never really listened with both ears.....until one day when I was doing an experiment where I wanted a rough edged acoustic so I recorded two parts onto a cassette in different keys and different speeds with a liberal lashing of chorus and then overdrove it back into my portastudio. It was only as the years went by and I came to work out a vocal melody for that section that I realized I hated that sound !! I don't mind it on a loud electric or even a bass, but an acoustic ? I shiver even thinking about it. It was, however, a good practical way to understand why sometimes, less is more.
Strangely, I really like the sound of flanging on an acoustic.
It is. I recorded tons of stuff on my portastudio over a 17 or so year period and it's only because I love those songs that I'm even bothering to mix them {there's around 100} because they're poorly recorded but as I've gotten better at tracking and mixing and also self editing {that is, being prepared to leave things out of the mix - very difficult for me. It's like neglecting my babies !!}, they're at least making more sonic sense as songs than they did when I first mixed them. They were just a clug~a~bug of competing rhythms, harmonies, sounds and jarring clashes {ie noise} then. So much so that if I found myself starting from the middle of a song, I wouldn't know which song it was ! And I'd written them !
rocknrollstar
New member
When I first got a chorus pedal, I was so thrilled to have something that could alter the sounds of whatever was fed into it that I never really listened with both ears.....until one day when I was doing an experiment where I wanted a rough edged acoustic so I recorded two parts onto a cassette in different keys and different speeds with a liberal lashing of chorus and then overdrove it back into my portastudio. It was only as the years went by and I came to work out a vocal melody for that section that I realized I hated that sound !! I don't mind it on a loud electric or even a bass, but an acoustic ? I shiver even thinking about it. It was, however, a good practical way to understand why sometimes, less is more.
Strangely, I really like the sound of flanging on an acoustic.It is. I recorded tons of stuff on my portastudio over a 17 or so year period and it's only because I love those songs that I'm even bothering to mix them {there's around 100} because they're poorly recorded but as I've gotten better at tracking and mixing and also self editing {that is, being prepared to leave things out of the mix - very difficult for me. It's like neglecting my babies !!}, they're at least making more sonic sense as songs than they did when I first mixed them. They were just a clug~a~bug of competing rhythms, harmonies, sounds and jarring clashes {ie noise} then. So much so that if I found myself starting from the middle of a song, I wouldn't know which song it was ! And I'd written them !
I'm aiming for the bare minimum overdubs and tracks on this album I want to do - mainly because I want it to have space/be easier to mix haha - when it comes to recording (although I'd imagine this will change/depend on the song) but do you prefer to record with effects at the start on your guitar or add those later? If I could sum up a sound I'd want to emulate parts of, it'd be a cross between John Frusciante's Curtains album and Beck's Mellow Gold album (particularly the acoustic tracks, Nitemare Hippy Girl, Pay No Mind etc)
I'm not 100% sure of what flanging is - any examples? I'm thinking Van Halen, however I mean acoustic examples.
Haha I always get my own lyrics wrong, it wasn't until I started double tracking vocals I realized how often I change words/switch the end word of a rhyme around with even meaning to. Complete melody man - words are just the carrier.
As a side note, I recorded a little earlier using some tips from the Acoustic Guitar 101 thread + tips from yourself and others from my short time on this forum - very short clip - what do you make of it? it's x2 mics on acoustic, kept a mic from each double track and hard panned - very little EQ and a bit of verb (yikes) - (attached to post)
grimtraveller
If only for a moment.....
It depends really. On acoustic, I'm more likely to record dry then add a tiny bit of EQ and effects if I think that's what's called for. On my delivery rounds, there's this building I go to with a really high ceiling {I think there's 7 floors} and everywhere covered in marble and a huge foyer. When people are walking to the lifts, the sound of their clacking footsteps is great. I'd love to sneak in there one night and record some acoustic guitar, drums, percussion and some voices!
With electric, I settle for the tone with the effects {if there are to be any} right up front and that is the sound I record and go with. I believe in committing to my sounds right away.
It's a funny thing but I was used to using a flanger years before I could ever identify it on any records I had. I honestly can't think of a single example of where one is used on an acoustic guitar. I claim that as my innovation though it obviously isn't ! When I'd come across an effect, I'd just try it out with electric and acoustics and bass, just to see what they were like.
Double tracking has often been difficult for me because I'm unlikely to sing something the same way twice. It's so much easier to double, treble and quad track harmonies and backing vocals. My friends that sing on my stuff however are all fantastic double trackers even though they rarely sing. I often marvel at how they keep to their lines with little discernible variation. Of late though, I've concluded that I don't like my voice double tracked so I rarely do it now. Funny thing is that it doesn't sound thin.
It's got a nice aggressive quality to it. Some good percussive attack. The timing is off in a couple of parts but I recognize that it's just a test recording. I would probably get a better idea of it's overall sound if I heard it within it's full setting.
rocknrollstar
New member
It's strange, before getting into recording I always thought that acoustic would be easier to record at home for some reason, however I find it the opposite. Have you ever recorded a track somewhere unusual? somewhere not at home/a "proper" studio? - my bathroom sounds quite good, think some vocals would work - ghetto echo chamber haha.
I'll do some research. I'm sticking to getting more knowledge of delay, echo and EQ before going further as that's the three I'll be using most for this acoustic thing I reckon.
I'm not too bad at double tracking, although I don't know if it's just cause I've done it, but I'm very aware it's double tracked if that makes sense? That's what puts me off it usually. John Frusciante isn't much for double tracking on his solo stuff and he gets by so you've both got that in common
Well here's a cover of a Beck song I done yesterday - the mix isn't 100 per cent complete as I hear some things I want to tidy up, but yeah - what do you make of that? has vocals and guitar so get a clearer picture of the sound (mp3 attached to post)
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
Not as unusual as you think!
When I worked in TV, directly adjacent to the Studio 1 control room was a five story fire escape stair case. It didn't happen often (90% of what I did was spoken word recording) but on several occasions I put a classical guitarist or classical-style vocalist on the landing between the ground and first floors and got a lovely "cathedral" effect!
I've done similar, Bob. Reamping electric guitar tracks in a five story fire escape staircase of concrete.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
LOL! Ours was Victorian red brick with a concrete staircase but it would take better ears than mine to hear the difference between brick and concrete walls! Lovely old building...I miss working there (though I don't miss some of the circuitous cable routes we were forced to use).
rocknrollstar
New member
Do you have any examples of this?
I've done similar, Bob. Reamping electric guitar tracks in a five story fire escape staircase of concrete.
Any examples of this?
I do remember reading something about John Lennon recording vocals in the bathroom, but I'm unsure if that's true.