Micing the Kick Drum

A

adam79

New member
Has anyone ever tried micing the kick drum with an D112 and SM57? I'm recording my friend's band this weekend and will be renting a mic for the kick and bass cab. I'm gonna DI the bass on the initial recording (when they play together, live) and then overdub a second, mic'd, bass track. This way I'll be able to use the same mic on the kick and bass cab.
The D112 is the only mic the rental place has in my price range. They also have a MD-421 II and RE-20, but they are a bit too pricey. I've never been a huge fan of the D112; I find it too boomy. However, I was thinking with the right EQ on the 112, and some top end from the 57, would be a good combo. I think that they might have a 52 Beta which is in my price range, but I don't have any experience with this mic. The 52 Beta is one of those newer mics with a manipulated frequency, specifically for the kick, right? Does it have a boosted top end, like the Audix D6, to get that Metal type click? I'm not a big fan of that sound. Also, how is it on a bass cab? Thanks.
 
The Beta52 is somewhat fat sounding but it doesn't lack any important frequencies, so you can eq it into submission if needed. Work with placement to get as close as possible to the sound you want, then eq.

It's been years since I've put an RE-20 on a kick. I'm going to have to try that again.
 
The Beta 52 needs to be placed just inside the hole in the resonant head. If you put it inside the kick up by the beater, it will sound bad.

All kick mics will need to be EQ'd to get the sound you want. I've never found any of them that just sounded like a finished kick sound, simply by placing them at the kick.

Placement is key. If you put it inside the kick, it will get a brighter, more attacky sound. If you pull it out, you will get more thump and less attack.

You could get away with either a D112 or a Beta52, with the right placement and some EQ.

Personally, I find the D112 relatively (lower)mid heavy. The Beta 52 is deeper. There is an attack, but it isn't super clicky, if you don't place it inside the kick.
 
When I had the studio, I would use my D112 and beta 52 interchangeably. They don't sound the same, but either one can do anything I ever wanted to.

It isn't like you want the kick to sound like it really sounds, as if your ear was at the vent hole or inside the kick. It will take a good deal of eq and compression to get it to what you want.

If I felt like I wanted separate control over the attack and boom, I would use a 421 inside the kick and an ldc outside.
 
i'm gonna have to fake my way thru tuning the kit before anything. I was recommended a couple tuning vids that should help. The reso head on my kick doesn't have the hole. I need to take it off to put a blanket in there, so I'm gonna try recording without the reso head first and then throw it back on if I'm not happy with the sound.
Any recommendations on EQ for the 112? The one tip I've gotten is to cut at 500k to tame the boxy tone. Also, should I close mic the 112 by the beater and put the 57 on the outside?
 
If you don't want a really clicky tone, keep the mic pulled back, away from the beater head. Right about where the reso head would be. (cutting a hole isn't terribly difficult. We used to use a coffee can and a razor blade/exacto knife)

Ditch the 57. People use 57's on kicks when they want to capture the attack. The D112 can capture the low end that the 57 cant. Since you know to get rid of the 400-500hz to get rid of the boxy tone, you will be left with brightness and boom. If the D112 is still too bright, add some 50hz for deepness or 80-100hz for thump. (depending on what you are going for.

In the upper mids/highs, 1k will be the classic 1970's attack, 3k will be more 80's attack and high shelf at 7-8k will give you a more modern attack.

With two mics, you have to start screwing around with phase alignment in the DAW. Since you don't like bright, having two reasonably bright mics on the kick and introducing phase will just cause needless problems.

Make sure that the blanket doesn't fill the drum. It just needs to stop the head from vibrating endlessly. Adjust it so that there is still resonance, and the note is the length you want it to be.

If you could give an example of the kick sound you are looking for, that would be helpful. You might get more specific help.
 
Farview said:
With two mics, you have to start screwing around with phase alignment in the DAW. Since you don't like bright, having two reasonably bright mics on the kick and introducing phase will just cause needless problems.
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Good point. Possible phase issues hadn't crossed my mind.

Farview said:
Make sure that the blanket doesn't fill the drum. It just needs to stop the head from vibrating endlessly. Adjust it so that there is still resonance, and the note is the length you want it to be.
Click to expand...

Ya. I usually fold the blanket and lay it on the bottom of the shell.. so the ends touch both heads.

Farview said:
If you could give an example of the kick sound you are looking for, that would be helpful. You might get more specific help.
Click to expand...

They're a punk rock band with some blues overtones. I don't wanna start listing songs that I wanna copy. I'd rather track as close to the live sound as possible and then EQ if I feel something needs tweaking. I just don't want the kick to sound overly clicky or boomy.
 
D112 about half way in the shell. if he is using a felt beater, point the mic at the beater. If he is using a hard beater, point the mic half way between the beater and the shell. Closer to the head for more attack, farther for more boom.

The single headed kick will naturally sound punchier and dryer than a kick with two heads.
 
Farview said:
D112 about half way in the shell. if he is using a felt beater, point the mic at the beater. If he is using a hard beater, point the mic half way between the beater and the shell. Closer to the head for more attack, farther for more boom.

The single headed kick will naturally sound punchier and dryer than a kick with two heads.
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I got both a hard and felt beater. When you say point the mic halfway do you mean positioned diagonal? Do you face it up, down or to the side? I need to get a dot too; I'm gonna go with the Kevlar one.
 
snow lizard said:
Here's an interview I found recently that touches on your question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvbrRyI2ccQ
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Thanks for posting this. In the video, Andy Scheps says that there shouldn't be any phase issues using two mics on the kick (if tracked correctly). His placement is completely different from what I had in mind, so this vid was really helpful. I'm definitely gonna try the D112/SM57 combo now; he uses a D112 and a Neumann U47 FET mic. Too bad the U47 costs 80$ for a one day rental!
 
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When I said half way, I meant half way between the beater and the shell. Pointed at the head.

If you were to draw a line with a marker from the center of the head, where the beater is to the edge of the head, there the shell is, point the mic a the center of that line.

Umm, a u-47 sounds and reacts nothing like a 57. It wont work the same way or have the same effect.
 
Andy said there shouldn't be any phase issues with the D112 just inside the hole of the reso head and the 47 fet within a couple of inches, the reason why he doesn't put the D112 farther inside the shell. His placement uses a near coincident approach to avoid phase issues. Separate the mics more and you're going to have to start messing around with placement or slide the waves around in the DAW as Farview said. That can be tedious.

Big difference between an SM57 and a 47 fet. A Neumann U47 fet is a classic "outside the kick" mic, SM57 not so much.

The big thing that I took away from Andy's comments is that he likes to set up mics quickly in a way that he knows he can use, rather than hinder the session with experimenting with mic placement. You've since mentioned that the reso head you have has no hole. Again, Farview has given you some guidelines that way with a few options depending on what kind of sound you want. Personally, I'm thinking that just using the D112 on its own with a reasonable placement and a few EQ tweaks should give you a good balance between easy, fast and good sound.
 
snow lizard said:
Andy said there shouldn't be any phase issues with the D112 just inside the hole of the reso head and the 47 fet within a couple of inches, the reason why he doesn't put the D112 farther inside the shell. His placement uses a near coincident approach to avoid phase issues. Separate the mics more and you're going to have to start messing around with placement or slide the waves around in the DAW as Farview said. That can be tedious.

Big difference between an SM57 and a 47 fet. A Neumann U47 fet is a classic "outside the kick" mic, SM57 not so much.

The big thing that I took away from Andy's comments is that he likes to set up mics quickly in a way that he knows he can use, rather than hinder the session with experimenting with mic placement. You've since mentioned that the reso head you have has no hole. Again, Farview has given you some guidelines that way with a few options depending on what kind of sound you want. Personally, I'm thinking that just using the D112 on its own with a reasonable placement and a few EQ tweaks should give you a good balance between easy, fast and good sound.
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Right. I'm gonna try out a few different placements and see which one I like the best. We're recording next Saturday and I'm gonna rent the mic(s) that Friday night. This way I'll have all night to mess around with placement and not have to return the mic until Sat night.

I'm aware that the 57 and 47 are completely different. I was just saying that it'd be cool to use a 47; I've never had the chance to mess around with one. It's one of those classic mics.
 
And just as EQ can help bend your tone into submission, a decent transient shaper can also bend your attack/resonance into submission :-)
 
My favorite way is outside about a foot out and build an iso shell around it with thick blankets. The control you have later in the mix is great.
 
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