Mackie 24/96 ADAT as a Master and Cubase 5 as a Slave... Rec problems

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flatline76

New member
Hello everybody! here's my first request, i hope to find help!
as i wrote in my presentation to the forum, i know nothing about studio recording, so please be patient with me...
i'm helping a friend of mine setting up a studio; we connected is old Mackie 24/96 SDR to a PC by an RME HDSP 9652 board (he asked me because is a "vintage" style person and knows nothing about PCs). he's using Cubase 5. We conencted the 3 ADAT optical cables between the devices and everything runs fine. when the Mackie play, Cubase can record on the proper tracks.

then, we tried to sync the devices by an ADAT SYNC 9-pin cable, with the Mackie as a master and the RME as a Slave... and here's the problem: the four main buttons for transport (forward, backward, stop and play) on his Mackie external controller work on Cubase, the REC button not.

If he presses one of the four buttons above, Cubase responds perfectly: it starts and stops in sync and goes to the time piece desired. when he presses REC+PLAY on the controller (or directly on the Mackie), Cubase "sense" just the PLAY button pressed, and start playing instead of recording.

I thought that the problem may be that the REC button acts quite like a "shift" button, so Cubase doesn't register the input... but is there a way to bypass this problem? am i doing something wrong? do i have to use another sync signal for REC, for example the World Clock?
any help is appreciated.
thanks!
 
Not familiar with that gear and I can only assume the transport control is done in Cubase via MIDI?

If so it is likely that Record is not "mapped" correctly and you will have to get rather deeply into MIDI to work this out. Try asking in the Cubase section here and in the Steinberg forum as well.

But then, and I don't mean to embarrass you, you HAVE got the tracks "record armed" I suppose?

Dave.
 
thank you for the answer Dave.
the SYNC between the SDR and the RME has been made by an ADAT SYNC 9-pin cable. So the transport control. maybe this is the error? do i have to use MIDI?
By "record armed" ehm.. what do you mean? when everything is ready, i see on Cubase that sync is ready and i can't touch anything. when i press the PLAY on the SDR Cubase plays too, and so does for every other button except REC.
first thing i tought was that REC doesn't send a signal like the other button: maybe with SYNC made by MIDI or world clock i can solve this problem?
thak you again for taking a look at the post!
 
Ok, I have looked up the Mackie unit and a AFAICT it sends the front transport controls out to a suitable soundcard and the card communicates with the DAW software, in this case Cubase and performs the transport functions in said DAW?

The reason I brought up MIDI was because there is something called "Mackie Control" which is a protocol used by MIDI Controllers to do just that very thing. It seemed logical to me then that the Mackie unit would do the same?

In Cubase from "File> Preferences" there is a large menu of settings and lots to do with MIDI. Part of that is "Filters" something there might need to be turned on or off. Then there are "CC" commands and these run from 0 to 127 and one of those MIGHT be the record function.

The "Arm" issue is that in most DAWs you need to have at least one track set ready or armed for record or it won't run.

Going to try some things in Cubase LE6 with a Korg Nano Kontrol.

Dave.
 
Dave, thank you very much for you answers! you're very kind helping such a noob like me!
the problem for us is that we would like to use the same transport controller already connected to the Mackie SDR; i mean the smaller controller that normally you place next to the mixer.
if i understand correctly, i can connect a MIDI controller to the RME board on the DAW station to control Cubase, but this way i'll have two transport controllers: one for the Mackie and one for the DAW.
instead, i would like to control the transport on Cubase while i control the transport on the Mackie with its controller (or directly on the Mackie). this works for all the buttons (PLAY, STOP, RWD FWD) except REC.
Am i doing something wrong?
 
You may not be doing anything wrong! It is entirely possible that the record function either does not feed out or there is a control command we don't know about.
Look at this..
"1. Select the Nano Kontrol as a MIDI device for Cubase to use by clicking "Devices" on the toolbar at the top of the screen, then selecting "Device Setup" from the drop-down menu. Choose "All MIDI Inputs" from the "MIDI" folder, click on the "Nano Kontrol" from the right side of the same screen, click "Apply," then "OK."
2. 6
Select the MIDI channel that Cubase and the Nano Kontrol will communicate on by clicking "Default MIDI Ports" from the "MIDI" folder, then selecting "All MIDI Inputs." This will allow Cubase to work in omni mode, which means it will receive information on all MIDI channels. Since the Nano Kontrol does not receive MIDI information, you do not have to change the MIDI Out settings in Cubase."

Put "Mackie" in place of Nano Kontrol. I tried this with my Cubase LE6 but could not get the Korg to work. I have Cubase but hate it for this reason, each version does (or sometimes don't!) things a bit differently. Going to Samplitude I simply find "MIDI Controllers" enter Nano Kontrol in a menu and it works. (see attached for "Armed for record. Sam tells you off and won't run if nothing is armed)

I did eventually get the Korg working in Cubase but I am not sure how!

Since nobody has come in and told us we are a pair of idiots I will assume that this is a rare setup and no one else has had the experience. Have a good hack and try Steinberg and Mackie forums. If you really cannot sort it in a day or so I will ask at another forum.

Dave.
 

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Dave, thank you for all the efforts you are putting in my issue! i'll try your guide this evening when i'll go to my friend's studio and i'll let you know.
talking about the setup... i think that the problems may be
1) Cubase 5 too old?
2) i'm simply following my friend's request: could it be that it's the setup that is wrong?
so i ask (to you and to the community): how would you manage this situation instead? i mean: i'm in front of my mixer, i want to rec the session both on an SDR and on Cubase at the same time. how can i handle this?
and thanks in advance to you Dave and to everybody who may concern!
 
I think you are making this way too complex and trying to get a machine to do something it just won't do. If I get you right, when you start recording, you want to record on the DAW and the SDR at the same time. I assume to get "more" tracks. If this is the case, here is what I would do:

Hit record on both machines, use some sort of snap (like a clapper board like they do in films) to synch the files, start recording. When done, import your files from the Mackie, line up the snaps and mix.

Maybe I don't understand the problem trying to be solved.
 
DM60 said:
I think you are making this way too complex and trying to get a machine to do something it just won't do. If I get you right, when you start recording, you want to record on the DAW and the SDR at the same time. I assume to get "more" tracks. If this is the case, here is what I would do:

Hit record on both machines, use some sort of snap (like a clapper board like they do in films) to synch the files, start recording. When done, import your files from the Mackie, line up the snaps and mix.

Maybe I don't understand the problem trying to be solved.
Click to expand...

Aha! You could be right DM! But even if he could get both systems to start with the same button press, they would not start in sync. I have tried this in Samplitude wit a 2496 and a USB device. Using MME drivers you can record both but you have to shift the start of one track when done.

I wonder if he could set Cubase 5 to "Use system Timestamp" then sync the Mackie from that?

Dave.
 
Dave, I am thinking more just like the analog world. Hit record on each machine timing means nothing other than both are going. We are talking about a few seconds of dead time, doesn't matter about the lead in, count in to start, clap the board, record. Once done, bring all the files in the DAW, line up the sharp wave peak in the DAW and that should get you pretty close to alignment/sync.

When the record button is hit on the machines doesn't matter as you would be lining up on the clapper sound.
 
DM60 said:
Dave, I am thinking more just like the analog world. Hit record on each machine timing means nothing other than both are going. We are talking about a few seconds of dead time, doesn't matter about the lead in, count in to start, clap the board, record. Once done, bring all the files in the DAW, line up the sharp wave peak in the DAW and that should get you pretty close to alignment/sync.

When the record button is hit on the machines doesn't matter as you would be lining up on the clapper sound.
Click to expand...

Yes, got that Dave. In fact in Sam you don't even need the "clapper"! Just expand the waveform and you can see the "gap" and then you push the whole thing and it bangs up to the left, start edge. Job's a good'un.

Dave.
 
First of all, thanks to both Daves for your suggestions regarding this issue.
trying to put it as simple as i could: my friend has the mixer in front of the studio glass where the artists perform, and is far away from the DAW. so, the idea is to prepare everything and follow the performance while sitting in front of the mixer as he ghas always did (analog way) while the DAW is recording too.
So he desired to start both recording on SDR and DAW in SYNC.
we used ADAT SYNC, but we don't understand why is just the REC button that doesn't work! it seems strange to me that the other buttons for transport are synced and working and that for REC i have to perform a workaround...
 
I have never been lucky enough to have any RME kit but from all I have read they are top guys.

I would think a succinctly worded email to them would clear this up PD bloody Q! It may be that for very good reasons, beyond us mere mortals, the REC command is simply not sent over the 9 pin connector?

I also strongly suggest you download the trial version of Samplitude ProX. That has a much easier (to me anyway!) MIDI controller implementation setup in it. (once installed, setup a track, mouse cursor on a blank space, hit the "Y" key).

Dave.
 
I do something similar with Reaper and an Alesis HD24, I have to preroll the HD 24(prerecord ) about 10 sec , then hit record , I also have it set so the DAW reads MMC(Midi machine Control) from the HD24. might want to check on the Mackie fourms for Info, I know there has to be someone out there trying to do what you guys want, I h ave a friend who's using a Mackie HDR with SonorX1 I'll talk to him tonight.
 
oh I forgot to mention over the 9 pin cable I could never make it work either, I did have luck with using JL Coopers Cue point, to control reaper and the HD24, but the CUE point died a few months back .
 
Thank you again Dave, and thank you CalgonStudio!
so, it seems to me that i have to try MMC instead of ADAT SYNC... ok, i'll try that.
I'll also try Samplitude ProX... maybe it will respond better? I'll keep you informed!
 
It's not that I think Samplitude will work any better, just that the setup for a MIDI controller seems a lot simpler and more logical than Cubase?

I am guessing you would set for "Mackie Control".

Dave.
 

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I used to run Nuendo with my Mackie MDR 24/96 via MMC and had no problems with it. I have since went to a Mackie HDR and a MDR and tried to sync Reaper with no luck. With my DAW before I had a M-Audio firewire 410 interface. I had the MDR as the midi master and a Lucid Genx 196x8 as the master clock, I had Nuendos transport slaved to the Mackie MDR through the firewires midi ports and the firewire 410 clocked from the Genx via spdif and it worked flawless. not so much with Reaper.
 
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