Farview
Well-known member
What happens when you turn off the compression? (grasping at straws)
Low level, constant, background hiss noise on all my recordings. Help.
- Thread starter Optiplex
- Start date
It makes no difference.
I've been doing some experimenting, and I've found 3 things that reduce the hiss a little bit , but all of them are unusable for various reasons: (1) By rolling off as much treble as possible .... unfortunately this also makes any recording sound dull and lifeless (2) By recording at very low mic volume settings in conjunction with low volume playback from the speakers .... it's all way too low volume to be usable. (3) By recording at maximum mic volume settings, and putting channel 1and 2 and master faders to zero ..... this creates distortion and a very unnatural tone, but it does enable high volume with about 40% hiss reduction (though the hiss is still quite audible). It's unusable because of the terrible overall musical sound quality.
The hiss is definitely not coming from room recorder noise. I've tried putting the recorder in one room, the mics in another room that's soundproof ..... and the hiss is always present on any recording.
GuitarLegend
New member
You said in your opening post that no matter what system you use, you get this background hiss. That is pretty hard to believe. Can you think of anything that is common to ALL recordings? Some piece of equipment that you use in each case? A cable? The location (were they all done in the same building)? I don't get your level of hiss even on the worst equipment that I have used. Its a mystery. Just wondering if there is something in common with all the recordings?
I've just found the cause of the hissing noise, now I just have to find the solution. This relates to the recorder I've been using for the past 8 years, a Fostex VF160.
After lots of experimenting over the past day or so, I've discovered the noise is caused by the faders on the channels including the master channel. Normally I record my vocal/guitar live on channel 1 and 2 with the faders about half way for earphone monitoring while I play, then I perform the bounce function with the faders set slightly differently to balance the vocal/guitar tracks, and then I master it adding eq and reverb with the faders set high as possible without any clipping, then transfer the master recording to the internal CD.
So, on 3 of the operations I'm using the faders. After experimenting, I've found the background hiss starts to become noticeable when the faders are turned up higher than about 30%. However to get "normal" recorded volume levels the faders need to be turned up WAY higher than that on the Bounce and especially on the final mastering. Result = noticeable background hiss at normal volume levels.
I can get a final CD recording without 95% the hiss, by simply lowering the faders right down throughout the process, but the problem with that is the volume level on the final CD recording is so low that it's totally unusable.
Aside from the background hiss noise I'm 100% happy with the sound I get from the recorder, and I love the sound I get with the eq and reverb. I much prefer the tone I can get with the simple Fostex eq and reverb compared to the tone I've been able to get with many online recorders. So if possible I'd like to continue using the Fostex.
So, how do I get rid of the noise from a fader when it's turned up more than about 30%? The higher up it goes the noisier the recorded hiss sound gets. The hiss sound is on the actual recording itself, and definitely not the result of bad headphones or speakers.
Fostex high fader hiss is the cause of the problem. I wonder what the solution is? I need a genius to help me.
After lots of experimenting over the past day or so, I've discovered the noise is caused by the faders on the channels including the master channel. Normally I record my vocal/guitar live on channel 1 and 2 with the faders about half way for earphone monitoring while I play, then I perform the bounce function with the faders set slightly differently to balance the vocal/guitar tracks, and then I master it adding eq and reverb with the faders set high as possible without any clipping, then transfer the master recording to the internal CD.
So, on 3 of the operations I'm using the faders. After experimenting, I've found the background hiss starts to become noticeable when the faders are turned up higher than about 30%. However to get "normal" recorded volume levels the faders need to be turned up WAY higher than that on the Bounce and especially on the final mastering. Result = noticeable background hiss at normal volume levels.
I can get a final CD recording without 95% the hiss, by simply lowering the faders right down throughout the process, but the problem with that is the volume level on the final CD recording is so low that it's totally unusable.
Aside from the background hiss noise I'm 100% happy with the sound I get from the recorder, and I love the sound I get with the eq and reverb. I much prefer the tone I can get with the simple Fostex eq and reverb compared to the tone I've been able to get with many online recorders. So if possible I'd like to continue using the Fostex.
So, how do I get rid of the noise from a fader when it's turned up more than about 30%? The higher up it goes the noisier the recorded hiss sound gets. The hiss sound is on the actual recording itself, and definitely not the result of bad headphones or speakers.
Fostex high fader hiss is the cause of the problem. I wonder what the solution is? I need a genius to help me.
GuitarLegend
New member
Dirty faders can cause a host of problems. After any significant period of time, even the dials on a guitar amplifier can create noise. The common solution is turn them back and forth over their full range to clean them. It is not advisable to use any kind of cleaning fluid as this can cause other problems that recur more frequently. You can try moving the faders through their full range for as long as you can. That's the quickest solution unless you replace the recorder
Farview
Well-known member
That sounds like a gain staging problem. You shouldn't be adjusting the faders in order to get the headphone volume you want. That's what the headphone volume control is for.
You should set the recording level of the guitar and vocals with the trim control. If the faders affect the recording level, leave them at unity and adjust the headphone volume with the headphone volume control.
During the bounce, you shouldn't have to turn the faders up at all in order to get good bounce level. You would probably have to turn them down. Same with mixdown.
It really sounds like you are recording at too low of a level and then adding gain (and noise) at every subsequent stage of the process.
You should set the recording level of the guitar and vocals with the trim control. If the faders affect the recording level, leave them at unity and adjust the headphone volume with the headphone volume control.
During the bounce, you shouldn't have to turn the faders up at all in order to get good bounce level. You would probably have to turn them down. Same with mixdown.
It really sounds like you are recording at too low of a level and then adding gain (and noise) at every subsequent stage of the process.
GuitarLegend, I tried your fader idea, but the noise is still there.
Jay, on the Fostex when I'm recording to the 2 channels the recording volume level is set by only the 2 mic knobs. The fader positions don't affect the recording volume, nor does it cause any hiss noise in the recording. It's only during the bounce and master functions that the positions of the 2 faders cause hiss. On the Fostex, the only way to set bounce and master volume levels is to use the faders. If the faders are turned down during bounce and master the volume goes down to zero and I get empty recordings.
I always record at quite high volume in my initial recording onto tracks 1 and 2, because that way I don't need to turn the faders up way too high in order to get decent volume in the bounce recording and master recording. I can record the bounce with low volume, but if I do that then I have to record the master at even higher fader settings than usual which results in more background hiss.
So the problem is the hiss on the bounce recording and the master recording. The hiss is only reduced by doing the bounce and especially master at extremely low recorded levels .... way too low for the music to be heard properly.
For years the hiss hasn't worried me because I just had my recordings for private use, but I want to put my music onto the internet now so the hiss will need to go. The hiss is always present on a recording from beginning to end, and when the music starts it overpowers the hiss and it can't be heard .... except in quiet spots in the music or at the end when the guitar's tone slowly.decays.
Jay, on the Fostex when I'm recording to the 2 channels the recording volume level is set by only the 2 mic knobs. The fader positions don't affect the recording volume, nor does it cause any hiss noise in the recording. It's only during the bounce and master functions that the positions of the 2 faders cause hiss. On the Fostex, the only way to set bounce and master volume levels is to use the faders. If the faders are turned down during bounce and master the volume goes down to zero and I get empty recordings.
I always record at quite high volume in my initial recording onto tracks 1 and 2, because that way I don't need to turn the faders up way too high in order to get decent volume in the bounce recording and master recording. I can record the bounce with low volume, but if I do that then I have to record the master at even higher fader settings than usual which results in more background hiss.
So the problem is the hiss on the bounce recording and the master recording. The hiss is only reduced by doing the bounce and especially master at extremely low recorded levels .... way too low for the music to be heard properly.
For years the hiss hasn't worried me because I just had my recordings for private use, but I want to put my music onto the internet now so the hiss will need to go. The hiss is always present on a recording from beginning to end, and when the music starts it overpowers the hiss and it can't be heard .... except in quiet spots in the music or at the end when the guitar's tone slowly.decays.
GuitarLegend
New member
Can you borrow a new one of the same type just to confirm or reject it as the cause? I spend enough at music stores to be able to do that from time to time. Or take yours to someone else and see if they get the same problem with only the Fostex being the common denominator?
"For years the hiss hasn't worried me because I just had my recordings for private use, but I want to put my music onto the internet now so the hiss will need to go. The hiss is always present on a recording from "
Shellac gave way to vinyl. Tape was only jeeeust good enough but track bouncing meant a noise build up so we got Dolby A and domestic B. Sixteen bit digital has a wide enough dynamic range for just about everything but you have to watch the peaks. 24bits is about foolproof.
Analogue gear has had to improve to mate with A/D,D/As, most notably mic pre amps that are affordable.
That^ is a micro-potted history of sound recording getting better, sorry mate, you will just have to pay up and join the club!
Dave.
Shellac gave way to vinyl. Tape was only jeeeust good enough but track bouncing meant a noise build up so we got Dolby A and domestic B. Sixteen bit digital has a wide enough dynamic range for just about everything but you have to watch the peaks. 24bits is about foolproof.
Analogue gear has had to improve to mate with A/D,D/As, most notably mic pre amps that are affordable.
That^ is a micro-potted history of sound recording getting better, sorry mate, you will just have to pay up and join the club!
Dave.
Is this significant? Using my Fostex digital recorder, if I "don't" plug the 2 microphones in, then press record and turn the faders up to max, the hiss noise (listening live through headphones) is 90% reduced even at max fader settings. Is this normal when mics are not plugged in (a much reduced background hiss level, whilst monitoring live)?
If this is not normal, then maybe the problem is due to the mic cables, and not the faders? Maybe I should buy 2 new mic cables and see.
If this is not normal, then maybe the problem is due to the mic cables, and not the faders? Maybe I should buy 2 new mic cables and see.
GuitarLegend
New member
Or borrow some mic cables before you decide you have to pay out.
There might be a gate inn the recorder? This means that unless there is some sort of input signal, even a tiny one, the preamp is shut down but just the ambient noise level from the mics when plugged in is enough to open the gate and let the hissy ole pre amps burst through?
Cables do not and cannot cause "hiss". Hums and crackles perhaps but not hiss.
Dave.
Cables do not and cannot cause "hiss". Hums and crackles perhaps but not hiss.
Dave.
GuitarLegend
New member
I have disregarded things that "cannot be" before until I tried it and found out that sometimes it CAN be...
I am sure you are right but he has to try things he hasn't tried yet if only to eliminate it as a possible cause. We are talking about an 8-year old system after all and we have an uncertain history of the gear
mjbphotos
Moderator
Yeah, I had one hell of a hiss last night with an XLR cable! Used between my Radial preamp and the mixer, I'm pretty sure the ground pin on the cable is faulty (I had issues with the pin pushing down into the plastic base of the connector last week, and got it positioned correctly, but maybe the solder connection broke).
The only way a cable might hiss is if there was a "dry" joint in a connector giving a high resistance contact. However the resistance would have to be several tens, maybe hundreds of kil Ohms and that would attenuate the mic signal to nothing and that would be far more noticeable than any hiss!
Trust me! Cables don't hiss, basic physics.
Dave.
GuitarLegend
New member
I don't trust you. You don't have any more insight into the problem than anyone else so far. I agree with your assessment in general, that cables don't hiss under any circumstances I can think of but I am willing to think about using new cables to eliminate the possibility of a condition I don't know yet. Sure, replacing the cables will very likely do nothing at all but we have to KNOW that before moving on. My money is on the Fostex but I don't KNOW that yet without further testing
That is very true Jay. Then the term "static" is used on your side of The Pond to describe any form of electrical noise (in fact of course a "static" charge cannot produce a signal. Electricity has to MOVE to radiate energy!)
So don't trust me GL! It was just a way of speaking like" Trust me, I;m a doctor" . I am just trying to save people time and money here. And speaking of money I will put it where gob is.
If anyone has an XLR mic cable that they can positively prove produces hiss (and meters out correctly otherwise) I will replace it IF they promise to send me the faulty one for examination. Yes, I will pay to ship it to the States IF they will reciprocate.
Dave.
Bobbsy
Boring Old Git
Just to support ecc83, in 40+ years of playing with this stuff, including probably tens of thousands of XLR cables, I've never once had a cable cause hiss. Crackles and pops, yes. Hum from earthing problems, yes. But never, ever hiss.
The main potential problem here is using the term "hiss" to mean something different than we assume. Hiss to me is, in effect, low level continuous white noise and I'd never use that description for anything else.
Dave, do you think the lack of noise without mics plugged in could be some kind of funny to do with the mic pre amps loaded vs unloaded? I've had something a bit like this when electrolytics in the power supply on a mixer start to go. Anyhow, I think this might be a mix of old gear (that wasn't brilliant to start with) plus inappropriate gain structure.
The main potential problem here is using the term "hiss" to mean something different than we assume. Hiss to me is, in effect, low level continuous white noise and I'd never use that description for anything else.
Dave, do you think the lack of noise without mics plugged in could be some kind of funny to do with the mic pre amps loaded vs unloaded? I've had something a bit like this when electrolytics in the power supply on a mixer start to go. Anyhow, I think this might be a mix of old gear (that wasn't brilliant to start with) plus inappropriate gain structure.