Leaving faders at unity when tracking

I've read a few articles that say to do this. Although what about when I want to monitor/track something at a lower level? Leaving it at unity forces one to listen at a louder level.

Perhaps the articles are just referring to the mono ins and not the main tracks that are used for mixing post tracking...?
Maybe if you posted a link or two to the specific articles you read it would help.

What happens a lot of time is something like that "telephone" thing where someone hears something, and in the telling, it gets changed ever so slightly, but by even the 3rd re-telling, the story has become something else. I.e., we're not sure what you read, and if what you're saying is exactly the same thing.

To me, unity is something I associate with keeping levels the same, as in unity gain. I can't say I've thought about it in tracking, but I have read that keeping your faders near the center (or zero) is a good practice because most have their finest granularity for control in that range. This is particularly important during mixing.

During tracking, if you're forced to push faders one way or the other, that suggests a problem with gain at an earlier level, or perhaps a problem with your monitoring end - not enough or too much gain there. So, recording with an eye on the next step, so the faders are centered while the record levels stay optimal, is a good practice, but controlling the level for monitoring, either during tracking or recording, is something I would not put on the track (or even master) faders.

I use gain control to get levels so it allows the tracks and master to be at the appropriate dB while giving me the most control over those levels. The level of what I hear is simply controlled by the monitor and headphone knobs on my AI.

I hope that makes sense, and I even understood the OP!
 
I have seen this said in some beginners recording books and this made me make some huge mistakes when I first started recording. The book stated this was the preferred way to have the faders (but as you have mentioned it did not say whether this would be the case for both analog mixers and DAWs). Thus when I first started I found myself tracking things too hot and having pretty much 0 headroom. Because I am using a DAW (sonar) when I switched to the way that Mack Caster suggested, my recordings improved hugely and I had so much more headroom when I finally got to mixing. I wish I would have asked sooner to have this clarified because it hugely confused me when I started. So if you're doing things in the box, leave the faders in the DAW and aim for that -18 to -12 that was already suggested.

When you have everything tracked, you have more room to move the faders down than if you track with them already at a lower position. 10+ tracks recorded at -18db and playing together stack up and you will need that headroom to make everything play nicely and not clip the master bus.

I think you may still be confused.
If you are using a DAW...the mixer faders come AFTER the signal is already recorded for most DAWs I've seen.
So I think people get confused between the signal level they are recording...and the signal level they are monitoring.
Two totally different things.

Your signal level that you record is set at the source and/or the AI...NOT the DAW.
Keeping them at unity in the DAW mixer or lowering them only affects the *output from the DAW* and usually what you are hearing in the monitors.
The problem is that many people use the mixer faders to control the monitoring level...which is wrong. You control your monitor level with the monitor volume....not the mixer faders.

So I think you may have found some kind of a working situation following the wrong advice...and based on what you said above, I get the feeling there is still some confusion on what the DAW faders at unity/0 really does to the signal or what they are used for.
 
I have seen this said in some beginners recording books and this made me make some huge mistakes when I first started recording. The book stated this was the preferred way to have the faders (but as you have mentioned it did not say whether this would be the case for both analog mixers and DAWs). Thus when I first started I found myself tracking things too hot and having pretty much 0 headroom. Because I am using a DAW (sonar) when I switched to the way that Mack Caster suggested, my recordings improved hugely and I had so much more headroom when I finally got to mixing. I wish I would have asked sooner to have this clarified because it hugely confused me when I started. So if you're doing things in the box, leave the faders in the DAW and aim for that -18 to -12 that was already suggested.

When you have everything tracked, you have more room to move the faders down than if you track with them already at a lower position. 10+ tracks recorded at -18db and playing together stack up and you will need that headroom to make everything play nicely and not clip the master bus.

If you have recorded at too high or low a volume for the faders to be effective enough, you should also be able to use the input gain of each channel in your DAW to lower or raise the pre-fader volume.
 
I think you may still be confused.
If you are using a DAW...the mixer faders come AFTER the signal is already recorded for most DAWs I've seen.
So I think people get confused between the signal level they are recording...and the signal level they are monitoring.
Two totally different things.


This is it. Probably the most important thing to take away regardless of medium or platform.
@KrystianL , if you don't have the luxury of a separate headphone/monitor mix, or direct monitoring, you probably will want to use your DAW faders whilst tracking to make your monitoring comfortable.
That's how my setup is and bass, for example, always needs to be boosted in the DAW whilst tracking whereas tambourines etc always need to be pulled back.
This is purely so that I'm comfortable with what I'm hearing and can be set back to zero, or wherever, after tracking.


The hardware input gain and actual recorded signal is not affected by this. We still get the same healthy recorded level as Mack described.
 
I'm using a presonus firestudio project to record with. I set the gain on the interface so I have a healthy level going into cubase. The article said to leave the track faders within the daw at unity (when tracking), that's fine but obviously when i start recording more tracks I may want to lower the the volume of whatever I'm monitoring/recording. Maybe the guy meant the mono/stereo in faders as opposed to the ones used when mixing?
 
My guess is either the guy was refering to a hardware fader on a mixer, which could be on the input path,
or he was giving a general 'don't worry about that yet' piece of advice which, to be honest, isn't really great.

The only time leaving your DAW channel fader at zero would be important is if you're setting input gain based on what you hear and while HR golden rule is 'trust your ears',
that's probably the exception. :p
 
Unity GAIN is 0db of gain(=1x), 0 db SIGNAL is too hot for recording. The fader markings are only relative to the input level so setting them at zero is meaningless without knowing your input level. Follow the gain path e.g. input approx -18to-16 db, fader set to 0(which is NOT increasing the gain) set output levels as needed using the track aux,sub, master faders. 0 on a fader does NOT mean signal is at 0db it means the output is equal to the input aka no gain change
 
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[MENTION=43272]Steenamaroo[/MENTION] Good point, I use the headhphone mix on my interface which is routed from the DAW so I usually leave the track I'm recording at unity and have everything else dropped down (sometimes the drums up for my timing's sake).


[MENTION=94267]miroslav[/MENTION] Thanks for clarifying that more for me. I think I am doing things correctly now but just didn't understand the proper function of DAW faders. I have my gain set properly to the -18 to -12 on my interface, I just like to leave the DAW fader at unity so that I can see a more precise measurement of my source's volume. My AI just has single dots in 12 db increments so I usually record a track, and then adjust the fader in the DAW when I move on to the next instrument to be recorded. If I'm still missing something I'd be glad to make sure I understand why I'm doing things rather than being just being lucky and having less consistent results.

Always learn something new on these forums, thank you!
 
I think I am doing things correctly now but just didn't understand the proper function of DAW faders. I have my gain set properly to the -18 to -12 on my interface, I just like to leave the DAW fader at unity so that I can see a more precise measurement of my source's volume.

You can do with the faders whatever works for you or feels "right"...but just understand that in most cases, the DAW mixer faders control the output level from the DAW, not the source input level...so metering the source at the output, is not always the most effective approach...though I get what you mean that the AI's metering is kinda crude.

Granted, if everything is at unity...the source levels should meter the same throughout the chain...but there should be or may be a point in your DAW where you can actually monitor the input level...while at the same time adjusting the mixer faders to whatever you like and read their meters as your output level. Those are two different things, obviously.

IOW...if you chain 5 pieces of gear together...and set them all to unity...sure, you can use the last piece of gear's meters to monitor your source level, but that's not the best approach, as it "locks up" your metering options...you now have to leave everything at unity throughout....do you see that?
You would do better to find metering that is closer in the chain to the source (or at the source) for the input level metering.

By the way, what DAW are you using?
I'm sure there are people here who also use it (no matter what it is)...and they may be able to give you more specific info on where to set and meter your input levels...but again, if you feel comfortable with how you are doing it now...then stick with that. Just trying to give you more options and more ways to utilize your DAW features.
 
Once again, a thread where finding out OP's DAW, hardware or getting a harken is like drawing teeth!

Jusfort! Noobs are limited in what they can post..Why not make it a rule that we are told AT LEAST software and hardware being used? Would save SO much buggering about!
Dave.
 
[MENTION=94267]miroslav[/MENTION]

I'm using Sonar Platinum and I just looked up how to see the input meters and found them tucked away to the right of the master bus. I feel so dumb I didn't know they were there the whole time but now I see exactly what you mean. There's a meter for each input I have on my Scarlett 18i20 and now I get what you mean about the DAW faders showing what the program is outputting to monitors and not what is being fed into the AI by any given source. Didn't mean to hijack the OP's post but hopefully this will be useful for them as well. Thanks for the patience and helping me understand this better!
 
I'm using Sonar Platinum and I just looked up how to see the input meters and found them tucked away to the right of the master bus. ...
Odd. I use an older version, but don't understand track meters being 'off to the right of of the master? -This is in Console (mixer) view?
For what it's worth my templates and default is Track view, Horizontal record meters Peak+RMS at -24 range. I can just about squeeze all 16 tracking inputs with a good view of the meters (on me rather smallish screen .. :>)
I don't get the attraction of mixer view, nor the track meters in mixing just to through that in.
 
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