Leaving faders at unity when tracking

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davecg321

New member
I've read a few articles that say to do this. Although what about when I want to monitor/track something at a lower level? Leaving it at unity forces one to listen at a louder level.

Perhaps the articles are just referring to the mono ins and not the main tracks that are used for mixing post tracking...?

Tah
 
I can't say that I've seen that advice, nor why it would be recommended.

What device are you recording with? That might unravel this riddle.
 
+1. It really would depend on the gear being used.

If the fader is on the way in and has effect on the audio signal that's being recorded then, yes, leaving it at unity is recommended as you'd want to use the gain control to set healthy recording levels.

If the fader is on the output side, like it is in most(all?) daws, then it really doesn't matter where it is as long as you know that your input signal is being recorded at a healthy level.
 
That might be a leftover from the analog side of things...like when you have a preamp output to a console channel...etc...that way you get your gain set up at the mic/pre, rather then using the console fader....but there's many times when it's not as simple as that.

If anything...you want your signal to start a good level, right at the mic and so on, that way you don't have to fix it down-steam by raising it, which would also raise any noise...or by having to lower it if it was too hot, 'cuz once it's too hot at the start, lowering it later doesn't fix it, like if you're getting some overload/distortion...you want to sort that out at the start, not later.
 
If you are recording anything with a modern AI, you want your input levels to be between a -12db and -18dbs. Once recorded, having your fader at 0, is 100% absolutely correct if you have recorded it properly.
 
Once it's recorded...keeping your faders at unity makes it kinda hard to mix the tracks....just sayin.
 
davecg321 said:
when I want to monitor/track something at a lower level? Leaving it at unity forces one to listen at a louder level. Perhaps the articles are just referring to the mono ins and not the main tracks that are used for mixing post tracking...?
Tah
Click to expand...

Again, what you are reading outside this community is 100% correct. Just saying..............
 
Are you talking about adjusting the levels of your track faders every time you want to monitor louder or softer? That's counter-productive. You've got a volume knob on your monitor or headphone output for that.

What you should be doing is zeroing in on a working mix while you are tracking. Each time you add a new track, rebalance the levels so that you're hearing the right blend of stuff. By the time you finish tracking, your working mix should be close to a final mix. Messing with your track fader levels every time you want to monitor louder or softer just creates more work for yourself downstream.
 
Mack Caster said:
Again, what you are reading outside this community is 100% correct. Just saying..............
Click to expand...

It really does depend where the fader is and what its function is. (edit : and how you're monitoring)
I couldn't track hand percussion with DAW faders at unity. I'd either be deafened or unable to hear the mix.

That said, I suppose I could use sends and a headphone mix....That's what they're for. :p

Tell us your setup, @davecg321
 
Steenamaroo said:
It really does depend where the fader is and what its function is. (edit : and how you're monitoring)
I couldn't track hand percussion with DAW faders at unity. I'd either be deafened or unable to hear the mix.
Click to expand...

With all do respect. The Op stated it was loud, not soft. "Leaving it at unity forces one to listen at a louder level". If you record at the proper input, the only reason this would be a problem, if is your setup is improper. Again, the OP said nothing about it being to soft. Unless I am missing something.
 
Monitoring levels should be independent of input levels.

The idea of faders being left at unity is tied to gain staging and to make use of the optimal range of fader travel. This is particularly important for live mixing, and, as others have noted, when tracking using systems that are modelled broadly on conventional analog workflows (i.e. mike into a console, with gain, EQ etc and faders on the input track).

This is why it's important to know the OP's set up. For example, I have no physical faders to leave at around unity. I have gain controls on the interface, and that's it. The faders in Reaper affect output, not input levels.
 
I think the reason for some of the misconceptions here is based on the fact that recording music, multi-tracking and mixing...is substantially different from doing a 1-mic narrated podcast, even if both utilize some similar equipment to a degree.

I can understand why in a podcast you would kinda "set-n-forget"....which is not unlike a typical radio broadcast. There's no involved tracking or mixing going on there.
I mean, there's even not much consideration for multiple mics, multiple sources, and all kinds of levels to deal with...
...but when you're actually recording music in a typical studio environment, there's few occasions where you would just line up your mixer faders at "0"/unity" and then just always go with that.

Not having much exposure to more involved recording usually translates to myopic, singular perspectives, and often "internet knowledge" is just a regurgitation of many Google searches...but that's what you get on the web these days.

So the question here is what's the OP doing...recording a podcast or recording multi-track music?
It's obvious the sources he found on the internet are part of that superficial "internet knowledge", and the OP was right to question it, because it makes little sense in music recording scenarios as some broadband approach.
 
Easier to explain how I do it.

I start with the faders at unity (recording input signal), I adjust the incoming gain so that the fader at unity is a healthy signal to the recorder, tape or digital does not matter. When you play back the recording you will have a good healthy signal to listen too.

Now during mixing the playback signal from each of the recorded tracks should have the fader at unity for a good signal, you can then adjust the fader for the desired volume in the mix but the fader will be around the correct position now right down the bottom or pushed all the way up, making it easier to mix. A word about mixing tracks, instead of turning up tracks you want louder into the +5 +10 db area of the fader, try lowering the other faders leaving the softer signals around unity, this does not mean that if the mix is near complete and there is something that needs a slight lift you can't push the fader up, but if you keep pushing tracks up from the start you will run out of headroom on the faders.

I should point out that I started in the analog tape world so this is something I learned from that, but it still applies to the digital world. I hope this explains the question.

Alan.
 
witzendoz said:
Easier to explain how I do it. I start with the faders at unity (recording input signal), I adjust the incoming gain so that the fader at unity is a healthy signal to the recorder, tape or digital does not matter. When you play back the recording you will have a good healthy signal to listen too. ...
Click to expand...
Presuming you're recording via channels from a mixer... with post fader direct outs no less?

'Proper recorded levels' ought to = healthy signal to listen to regardless how you get there. :)
Thanks
 
I actually broadcast live on radio as well as run a recording studio, our broadcast desk at the radio station has the input gain preset to suit the mics, but the fader is nearly always at unity when talking in a normal speaking voice. Same can be said fro the gain settings for CD, MP3, turntable playback.

Cue metering is the same with a cue master for adjusting the overall volume.

Alan.
 
Yeah...there's different scenarios...and if you're using a console of sorts, and feeding a recording/broadcast device from it...the channel fader is altering the signal level to that device....you can use it to control/change the level before it is recorded..
You certainly would start with the faders up at unity, but there is no absolute to leaving them there. Your source level comes into play, and also how you want to stage the pre....hit it light or hard....and then used the console fader to set you final level to be recorded.

With a DAW like Reaper, as gecko pointed out...the mixer faders come after the signal is already recorded, they affect the output not the input...so leaving them at unity has no real impact on the recorded signal, only the output mix signal.
 
I have seen this said in some beginners recording books and this made me make some huge mistakes when I first started recording. The book stated this was the preferred way to have the faders (but as you have mentioned it did not say whether this would be the case for both analog mixers and DAWs). Thus when I first started I found myself tracking things too hot and having pretty much 0 headroom. Because I am using a DAW (sonar) when I switched to the way that Mack Caster suggested, my recordings improved hugely and I had so much more headroom when I finally got to mixing. I wish I would have asked sooner to have this clarified because it hugely confused me when I started. So if you're doing things in the box, leave the faders in the DAW and aim for that -18 to -12 that was already suggested.

When you have everything tracked, you have more room to move the faders down than if you track with them already at a lower position. 10+ tracks recorded at -18db and playing together stack up and you will need that headroom to make everything play nicely and not clip the master bus.
 
Even good advise on the internet needs context. That advise is only useful when you are using an analog mixer with post fader sends to the recorder. But in that scenario, you would use a mix b or an aux send for the headphone mixes (Or return the recorder into different channels, if you had enough)

Taking specific advise and applying it to the wrong situation will always be a problem.
 
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