Large Diaphragm Cardioid Condenser for Grand Piano Recording

J

jimpickens

New member
I would love anyone's opinion on a matched pair of large diaphragm cardioid condenser microphones that I should use to record a grand piano. I am hoping for a darker sound from the microphones. I would also like to keep the the combined price of the microphones under $300. Thank you kindly for your input. :)
 
There might not be too many suitable mics within your budget but, since you say darker sounding, have a look for Oktava mk219/319. :)
 
What do you think would be a more reasonable budget, and with that updated budget, what microphones would you recommend?
 
Honestly? I don't really know....Hopefully someone will.
I just know that $300 doesn't go all that far on a pair of condenser mics and, generally, cheaper ones tend to be bright/harsh.

The oktavas are well thought of mics and most consider them to be worth more than their price tag, but I'm not sure that you can buy them new any more. (Anyone?)

Welcome to HR, btw. :)
 
you will need a very large budget if you want darker sounding condensor mics, I would go for something like a pair of neumann tlm193 mics.
 
Btyre2013 said:
you will need a very large budget if you want darker sounding condensor mics, I would go for something like a pair of neumann tlm193 mics.
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Actually, good call! I forgot I had one of those, briefly, and it was a pretty natural sounding mic.

Ribbons might be another avenue to investigate, but I really can't help with that one, I'm afraid.
 
Within budget you could get a matched pair of SDC's... Rode M3's maybe... I've used them on acoustic guitars, percussion and vocals with success.
They were very good on Djembe and Tabla (lots of Tabla players here in Bfd).
Found them very adaptable.
Don't own them but the theatre where I work has 3 pairs so I've borrowed them a few times.
 
jimpickens said:
I would love anyone's opinion on a matched pair of large diaphragm cardioid condenser microphones that I should use to record a grand piano. I am hoping for a darker sound from the microphones. I would also like to keep the the combined price of the microphones under $300. Thank you kindly for your input. :)
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I would not do it this way at all.

You really need an omni mic. to get the bottom end of a grand piano.

I would get a pair of the Line Audio OM1 - these should be within you budget and punch well above their weight for quality at the price. :thumbs up:

It's what I would get if I needed a budget mic. :thumbs up:

And recording pianos is my speciality.
 
Johns always offers good advice, but I can never afford his suggestions, until now! These look well worth investigating - cheers John!
 
Hey Jim,

Great question. After a lot of thought, your budget and only suggesting mics I own or have used enough times to commit on, I have two options that will work very well for piano that are not marketed as a piano mic. I have used both on baby grand and up right piano. ADK VIENNA Mk8 and Rode NT1A.
The Vienna Mk8 matched pair 600$ US and the Rode is ? 250$ each. I really like the versatility of the Vienna. Over heads. Vocal. Acoustic Gtr. It is one of my go to mics. So is the ADK Odin.
The NT1A is really good, also a go to mic. I have built up my mic locker and own a few mics that are a lot more expensive. But I still use these regularly.
If I cannot get the sound from the mics I have, I will EQ in the box or with out board (or both) on the way in.
Good luck. I am very curious to find out how it works out for you. I like John's suggestion. But I do not have experience with that mic.

Jojo
 
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OM1 quite cheap for the almost totally flat frequency response graph between 20-20,000 Hz... Wonder how comparable it is against my Rode NT-55 in omni pair...
 
greengyozaman said:
OM1 quite cheap for the almost totally flat frequency response graph between 20-20,000 Hz... Wonder how comparable it is against my Rode NT-55 in omni pair...
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I used to own the rode nt5 and now own the line audio cm3 mics, the rode had lower self noise but they were extremely bright in comparison, and pretty harsh. Judging by how good the cm3 are...the om1 are going to be great
 
Amazing what forums like this can teach me... I'll definitely check out OM1s... Not bad price for achieving near-total flat response...

Otherwise, I'll continue to save up for step up with my AI and microphones i.e. Prism Titan or RME Fireface 802 / UC / UFX... Microphone wise - Sennheiser MKH 8020, SE Electronics RNR1 x 2 or the new Rode NTR x 2...
 
Ah yes - the very article which made me buy the pair of Rode NT-55s with changeable heads initially... Worked well for me so far with occasional access to my old university Steinway model D grand in a pretty decent acoustic chamber library room....

Based on the article, Sennheiser MKH 8020 seems to be the next step with mind-boggling 10 - 60,000 Hz frequency response... Never used ribbon microphones before, but I was impressed with the warm natural sound of Rode NTR, and SE Electronics RNR1 covers 20 - 25,000 Hz and for ribbon microphones which may well be something I could use with brighter grands...
 
greengyozaman said:
Ah yes - the very article which made me buy the pair of Rode NT-55s with changeable heads initially... Worked well for me so far with occasional access to my old university Steinway model D grand in a pretty decent acoustic chamber library room....

Based on the article, Sennheiser MKH 8020 seems to be the next step with mind-boggling 10 - 60,000 Hz frequency response... Never used ribbon microphones before, but I was impressed with the warm natural sound of Rode NTR, and SE Electronics RNR1 covers 20 - 25,000 Hz and for ribbon microphones which may well be something I could use with brighter grands...
Click to expand...

The 8020 is good for piano recording, as is also the MKH 20 - I have both of these.

I also have the Neumann KM131-D, though my next piano recording will be with the Gefell M221 (which had not been released when that article was written).

Piano recording is my speciality.
 
Thanks for this John - I'll look to place an order for MKH 8020.

I guess the next thing I must do is sorting out the audio interface as I guess neither my Focusrite Scarlett 18i6 or Steinberg UR-22 will do justice the Sennheiser pair... I'm looking at the choice between Antelope, RME Fireface (any difference between the 802 and UC/UCX/UFX?) or Prism Lyra 2 / Titan - any thoughts on this will be extremely welcome.

I'd mainly record piano and other classical solo, chamber music, and occasional chamber choir, chamber orchestra plus the combination of the last two...
 
Just ordered Prism Lyra 2 and Sennheiser MKH 8020 pair - and look to trade in my Octopre MK II for something else to link to Lyra 2 via ADAT... Hopefully a big difference in sound I'm capturing from the model D Steinway next time I record...

Going back to the question of a large cardioid microphones for grand piano - I helped some students record a single vocal track with the model D steinway at London School of Economics in its recreational library with good acoustic:

https://soundcloud.com/leushira/nikki-tan-solo/s-juIvl

For Steinway I used AKG C214 x 2 (away from each other 90-degree angle), about 50 cm away around half way through the curved side of the piano angled slightly downwards towards where lid is joined to the frame

Vocal - Rode NT2-A
Spare room mic - Rode NT2-A (omni)

Used Focusrite Octopre MKII and connected to Scarlett 18i6, and to iPad Air 128Gb using Presonus Capture (paid multi-track version), then mixed in Presonus Studio One Professional v2.65

(Apology for some noise in the background - coming from one of the air filters in the library...)

Not sure if this helps - but hope this gives someone ideas on piano with large cardioids... Please feel free to comment as I'm still learning the trade and this is my very first vocal track (work as accountant full time during the day, still play piano/conduct a student chamber choir/mainly focused on location recordings...)
 
I was recording my friend's informal recital over the weekend using my Sennheiser MKH 8020 with Prism Lyra 2:

https://soundcloud.com/leushira/2015-03-07-06-hindemith-sonata/s-nf53U

Steinway model A baby grand in a basement performance area (boxy dry acoustic) - the microphones not only captured the boxy acoustic but also the baby grand tonal quality quite faithfully. I look forward to recording the model D Steinway at my old university (with better acoustic) soon...
 
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