KSM44 vs. TLM 103?

Insider info ay?
103 ....To win in the 4th race! :laughings:


But seriously If this is to decide which microphone to purchase and I'm imagining that it's for vocals ..............if it was me I'd go with the KSM 44, but that's just me.
Have you been able to audition these two for yourself?





:cool:
 
anyone have any insider info on these?
Yeah, the TLM103 visits his psychiatrist the second tuesday each month, drives a Ford Fusion to work every weekday, and is cheating on the KSM44 with a Mojave Audio MA200.

The KSM44, in turn, is just happy as long as the 103 still believes that the two SM57s they take care of at home are actually his.

G.
 
Yeah, the TLM103 visits his psychiatrist the second tuesday each month, drives a Ford Fusion to work every weekday, and is cheating on the KSM44 with a Mojave Audio MA200.

The KSM44, in turn, is just happy as long as the 103 still believes that the two SM57s they take care of at home are actually his.

G.

:laughings: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA :laughings:

We don't want orphaned 57s running around.
Sounds to me Glen like *Payton Place*.





:cool:
 
Cue William Conrad as Bullwinkle's announcer:

"Stay tuned next week as the R121 accuses the Lexicon Omega of not being man enough to satisfy her gain needs in, "Signal Chain of Fools", or, "You've Got To Be Ribbon Me"."

G.
 
anyone have any insider info on these?


far from insider

if looking for brief verbal comparison . . . very different mics

KSM44 has been discontinued (replaced by 'a' and have no idea of what the changes entail) but nos is probably still readily available it is multipolar vs. TLM103 being cardioid

both mics lack transformers both can be considered to be solid workhorse mics not absolutely iconically stellar on anything but usable on almost everything

Each has its fans, each detractors. I'm not particularly fond of the TLM103 where as I find the KSM44 (cardioid little brother) to be, cost/benefit-wise, solid additions to mic locker

my subjective reaction to TLM103 might be due having enough experience with other Nuemann's that I do really like . . . while possible via double blind A/B it would be possible to evaluate independently . . . just never done it . . . it is not a mic on to-do (buy) list

While presence is probably not exactly the right term (since for 'old school' guys presence lurked in the 4-6 kHz range) the TLM103 presence boost is fairly broad & smooth, from below 5 kHz, peaking at 4 dB about 6 kHz and staying flat (@ +4 dB) to well above 10K kHz. This contributes to its reputation for brightness (or brittle depending on taste) And if I remember correctly there are no emphasis (de-emphasis) circuits at the low end

KSM44 frequency response will vary depending on pattern selected (and of course depending on roll off filter) with Cardioid and w/o filter I find, subjectively, it has a slightly more detailed low end then TLM103. It's presence bump is lower, roughly 3 dB, shallower, starting higher peaking about 6 kHz and falling off fairly rapidly so that it's flat by 8 kHz with a 2nd smaller boost @ 10k kHz

Omni pattern (where I particularly like KSM44) is essentially flat from 50 Hz to 10k with if anything a tiny presence dip (which for me does not hurt detail of 4 kHz range, but just sort of presents an opposite 'picture' from what most mnfc try to market as modern)

as I said very different mics
 
far from insider

if looking for brief verbal comparison . . . very different mics

KSM44 has been discontinued (replaced by 'a' and have no idea of what the changes entail) but nos is probably still readily available it is multipolar vs. TLM103 being cardioid

both mics lack transformers both can be considered to be solid workhorse mics not absolutely iconically stellar on anything but usable on almost everything

Each has its fans, each detractors. I'm not particularly fond of the TLM103 where as I find the KSM44 (cardioid little brother) to be, cost/benefit-wise, solid additions to mic locker

my subjective reaction to TLM103 might be due having enough experience with other Nuemann's that I do really like . . . while possible via double blind A/B it would be possible to evaluate independently . . . just never done it . . . it is not a mic on to-do (buy) list

While presence is probably not exactly the right term (since for 'old school' guys presence lurked in the 4-6 kHz range) the TLM103 presence boost is fairly broad & smooth, from below 5 kHz, peaking at 4 dB about 6 kHz and staying flat (@ +4 dB) to well above 10K kHz. This contributes to its reputation for brightness (or brittle depending on taste) And if I remember correctly there are no emphasis (de-emphasis) circuits at the low end

KSM44 frequency response will vary depending on pattern selected (and of course depending on roll off filter) with Cardioid and w/o filter I find, subjectively, it has a slightly more detailed low end then TLM103. It's presence bump is lower, roughly 3 dB, shallower, starting higher peaking about 6 kHz and falling off fairly rapidly so that it's flat by 8 kHz with a 2nd smaller boost @ 10k kHz

Omni pattern (where I particularly like KSM44) is essentially flat from 50 Hz to 10k with if anything a tiny presence dip (which for me does not hurt detail of 4 kHz range, but just sort of presents an opposite 'picture' from what most mnfc try to market as modern)

as I said very different mics

Thank you very much. you seem to be quite knowledgeable.

My situation, though probably obvious, is im looking for a vocal mic... id like to spend around the 800 range... the tlm is the absolute highest i could go.

any recommendations on mics that i should seriously consider?
 
Thank you very much. you seem to be quite knowledgeable.

My situation, though probably obvious, is im looking for a vocal mic... id like to spend around the 800 range... the tlm is the absolute highest i could go.

any recommendations on mics that i should seriously consider?

Purchase a Rode NT1a then ship it off to Michael Joly for a full modification ....All said and done about $600.-to- $700. and the finished product will be well worth the investment. ;)







:cool:
 
any recommendations on mics that i should seriously consider?

As with most audio work, and certainly most mic selection the only distance answer that works is: 'it depends'. If someone is in process of building a mic locker to support a variety recording it is fairly easy to suggest some recommendations. There are only a handful of basic mic designs and over time, while there are a lot of variations on the basic themes, the things that constitute acceptable performance and build quality are not too difficult to determine.

While prices are actually far more attractive now then when I started (for the basic models needed) price still remains a significant variable. A lot of recommendations on this forum, declaring loudly that this is 'home' recording forum are determined by individual budgets. If an item is what you can afford (and keep your family together) and it more or less accomplishes the task you've set forward then the tendency is declare its general value. But in truth there is no one size fits all mic. In some ways the better the mic is, the more important other variables in the recording process become: acoustic space, the material, the performance, a performers technique; the less 'forgiving' the mic is to deficiencies in the signal path.

If you are looking for a mic primarily to complement your own voice in a typical home recording space then the only advice that works is work out how audition as many mics as possible, for however long it takes to find the one that works. No matter what it is you think you are 'hearing' as far as commercial reviews or on sites like this forum, concerning the mic you need to physically audition the mics in the space in which you will be recording, using the gear you will be using.

Given a halfway decent, i.e. treated, room supporting a vast range of popular music styles and talent, I find a well persevered U47 fet to be about as universal a suggestion for male vocals as any mic I've used. That said there are things I like about a more open, less constricted, head basket and circuitry that doesn't choke the low end capabilities of the k47 capsule. Only in the last couple of years have I run across modern versions of that capsule that actually seem to support those type of changes coming up with 'clones' that honor original design but bring something original and interesting to the table, not merely clones built price, with hyped mid's because initially those can seem to capable of 'cutting through the mix' in mediocre rooms with entry level mic pres. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who feel like I do about the U47 (you can use it on kick drum, on toms, as percussion overheads, on guitar cabinets, on saxophone, on strings, etc.) and well maintained vintage units are priced accordingly. Even with relatively decent manufacturing quality control any individual mic can perform very differently than another of the same model. This of course has given rise to the myth (as opposed to reality) of 'matched' pairs. If you can't afford a 312 series mic pre (or Neeve or V72 or rebuilt modified Altec, or . . . ) an 1176 comp and are tracking in a bedroom, basement or garage and you are working right up against the mic, in close proximity a really good dynamic can easily be the best choice. Shure SM7 immediately comes to mind. For that matter I've used SM57 to record masculine vocals on projects that had label support. Typically the SM57 is not my first choice but there are times, for the material, with a specific performance in a particular room it is the mic that works. Dynamics, as a rule require mic pres with more gain then require for an average, good condenser . . . so matching mic with pre remains important, as does proper gain staging so a vocal performance is supported not only by the gear, but by every other part of the tune.

Getting a good top of the line Dynamic is typically cheaper then a run of the mill condenser. Dynamics tend, once the gain issue is accounted for, to be more forgiving of pre-amps as well. Pres in $500 dollar range, like Audient Mico, FMR RNP, P-systems solo ribbon pre, tend not only to a good job with a good dynamic, but improvement between them and multi-thousand $ pre tends to be less obvious. As a very general rule, across the board the budget for world class dynamic mic signal chain is much easier on the pocket.

For a lot of different vocals, styles and genres, I really like ribbon mics. In addition to being very sensitive to quality of mic pre, getting a good performance, from a ribbon, in a poor room is difficult. Until about 30 yr. ago every instrument derived its 'sound' from interaction with ambient space, microphones evolved in support of that fact. You are not capturing just the voice, just the thing emanating from the mouth of the instrument but how that wave interacts with the 'room'. A lot of iconic recording condensers are optimized for this task, mic is not optimized for direct injection into a electric/electronic medium but to capture pressure waves radiating in space. The reason for going on about this is that trying to recommend a single mic without taking material, performance, other items in recording chain & room is simply impossible. I use an AKG C414 as a principle mic to audition a room, performance, etc. But that mic is actually used less then half the time I try it. And truth is there is a huge difference between original brass C12 capsule and more modern teflon/mylar ones. And the brass capsules are probably never coming back. (which is not to suggest that every older mic is better then modern by any means . . . but built to price tends to be problematic with mics.)

Of the two mics OP lists subjectively I'd find the KSM to tilt in direction of vocals more then the TLM103, but for any particular voice you'd have to audition them for any realistic determination. As an entry level vocal mic I really like the AT4050 (and am fairly happy with the entire 4000 line). I am not a big fan of most of the inexpensive ribbon mics, off the self, but having the ribbon replaced (with one of appropriate thickness (thinness)) & retensioned, swapping low rent circuits for slightly better ones, modifying the headbasket (if need) needs to be fairly cost effective. A $100 Chinese ribbon combined with $350 for modifications creates a mic that might not have great resale but leaves you with a mic you won't need to get rid of. And modifications are problematic, from the audition first point of view. I am a big fan of some the mic mods available but still wouldn't recommend the un-auditioned mod path as an 'only' mic for a novice. If you can audition the mod then it fits into the same category as any other mic.

The Rode mics get a lot of support on this forum but personally, while I am not criticizing them per se I find them guilty of all the limitations of modern entry level mics. Upper mids tend to be hyped at the expensive of detail in the lower frequencies. But that detail (transparency) . . . is necessary for detail in the harmonics that are generated by them . . . and it is detail of the transients that cuts through a mix. But every voice, in every room, is different and will be supported differently by different mics.

Some of the mics that show up more or less in your price range (besides the 2 mentioned): C414 (certainly used), AT4050, Peluso 47le, Mojave ma300, Nuemann TLM49 (probably a little more then your budget but I've found it to be a very useful mic) and on the cheap side of things, while I don't they they are made anymore NOS is still available the CAD Equitek E300 was a much better mic (particularly for male vocals) then it had any right to be.

Have not had a chance to audition them yet but the MikTek mics look promising The C7 is streeting @ $900 but you might be able to negotiate it into your price range.
 
Whoa... an other novel!
And this is why you'll never see me hanging out at Barns & noble anymore.

Great post oretez.





:cool:
 
Yeah, the TLM103 visits his psychiatrist the second tuesday each month, drives a Ford Fusion to work every weekday, and is cheating on the KSM44 with a Mojave Audio MA200.

The KSM44, in turn, is just happy as long as the 103 still believes that the two SM57s they take care of at home are actually his.

G.

I would cheat on a 44 anyday to get a crack at that sweet MA200 ass :cool:
 
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