Joe Meek's recordings (old recordings in general)

J

Jillchaw

New member
I want to know something. If you had an old Ampex recorder, some old 50s tube compressors, a few akg d19s and maybe a um57, and you recorded some people playing instruments, would it sound like a recording made in the 50s/60s? It seems like after all that purist approach to equipment that it would sound authentically old. What i dont get is how people are supposesdly still using all this vintage equipment but everything sounds new. EVERYTHING. No matter how hard you try to make something sound authentic it just sounds modern anyways. Like that White Stripes album that was recorded at that supposedly all vintage equipped studio. Man i was so psyched when i saw the equipment at that studio, but when i heard the album it just sounded like the same old modern production to me.

I have always been a deep believer that you could record great music with barely anything and it would still sound great, but this question is purely about production only and not about songwriting or performance. I am aware of how important those things are already so i dont need to hear that old routine again. I just want to know why its so hard to make things sound the way they did back then.
 
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More!

I was just listening to Harvey Gersts supposed recreation of 60s recordings on the remake of that beach boys song. It doesnt even come close. I respect Harvey and all that, but it just isnt even near the sound. I honestly dont even think the musicians sound like they are playing the part. Maybe im crazy but i know what i feel. I am in no way a recording engineer and i know nothing about audio production or any of that, but though im only 26 i have listened to ALOT of 50s and 60s music because its my favorite. I dont know what it is but i FEEL like there is alot of rich midrange tones in old recordings. Not like when you turn up the mids on your crappy tascam m216 mixer. That will just get annoying to your ears. It seems like they got the midrange to sound really rich without boosting it artificially or harshly back then. Like i said i know nothing about production, so this probably sounds like BS to anyone who has a ton of experience in recording. But to me in old recordings a banjo feels like a banjo. A guitar feels like a guitar. Drums feel like drums. Modern recordings everything just sounds how things sound.
 
Well, a few things may be in play there. First, the new stuff may be recording on old analog tape machines and old style microphones and so forth, butthey're probably not going through a 1950s era console and not being recorded on 1950s era tape formulations; so the signal chain is probably not completly "vintage".

Second, a lot of the 50s and 60s stuff was indeed EQd to emphasize midrange; the idea was to make it work on AM radio without having AM's response limitations leave out half the song.

Third, your used to hearing this stuff either on old vinyl or on CD remasters of 40 year old tapes. New stuff recorded analog and mastered fresh will just not have that patina of age on it.

Fourth, there's always a bit of the nostalga filter happening in one's brain. If you grew up on the old stuff, the news stuff just does not sound "right", even if it is technically "better". We all suffer from that to some degree.

G.
 
yeah

I always dig the extra midrangey sound of the early monkees recordings. Like the voice on "When love comes knocking at your door".
 
The technique is more important than the gear.

Are the players playing in the style of the times?

Are they using the instruments of the times?

Are they playing together rather than overdubbed one by one?
 
I know you said you didn't want to hear this, but I honestly think it is the best answer to your question:

The Musicians.

Also, it could be that people listening to 60s songs when they were new didn't have the following 40 years of musical experience that we all have now, which certainly has colored our perceptions and expectations.

The socially accepted norm of what things "should" "sound" like has obviously changed from what is use to be.
The only way to make really a 60's recording is to record it during the 60s, know what I mean?
 
Jillchaw said:
But to me in old recordings a banjo feels like a banjo. A guitar feels like a guitar. Drums feel like drums. Modern recordings everything just sounds how things sound.
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Can you explain what you mean? I didn't catch the difference between "drums sounding like drums" and "everything just sounds how things sound."
 
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RAK said:
Can you explain what you mean? I didn't catch the differenc between "drums sounding like drums" and "everything just sounds how things sound."
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My assumption is that they meant it sounds raw and less manufactured.
 
Well, if the instruments being recorded are also vintage, and if the musicians are great players that understand how to play like the players played back in the 50's-60's, then that's a good start.

But you'd also need to mix and master the recordings on vintage gear... you'd need a somewhat simple tube mixer, a single (mono) monitor as well as a pair of monitors to monitor the mix on, an analog reel to reel mastering deck with tube input preamps to mix down to, a tube EQ for mastering (with "vinyl" EQ'ing in mind), a box of razor blades and tape editing block (no digital editing or sweetening), and a pair of great ears... that'd get you pretty close IMHO.
 
i was thinking like kid klash..the mixing and monitors (and mastering).
what were those famous box speakers with one driver pre-NS10's?

and what about your playback system? tubes or chips....

not to mention brylcream and orange shag carpet or was that later...hehe
 
COOLCAT said:
i was thinking like kid klash..the mixing and monitors (and mastering).
what were those famous box speakers with one driver pre-NS10's?

and what about your playback system? tubes or chips....

not to mention brylcream and orange shag carpet or was that later...hehe
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Brylcreem before, shag carpet later. :)
 
COOLCAT said:
i was thinking like kid klash..the mixing and monitors (and mastering).
what were those famous box speakers with one driver pre-NS10's?
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Those famous little brown and gold-colored single driver monitors were AuraTones... I've still got a pair (which were previously owned by Walter Becker).
 
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I just hate new recordings as well as new music.

I hate to say that i dont think there is much nostalgia factoring in. I wasnt alive even in the 70s. Its an audible difference.

Musicians back then also played to serve the song. Musicians these days have too much personal BS in their playing. Every dude in the drum section of guitar center is doing quad kick drum patterns and rolls with one hand, yet todays music sucks.

I think live recording to save tracks also factored into the sound as well as track bouncing.

Man in know im just a dumbass punk in his bedroom but i swear my recordings on my cheezy tascam 38 through my tiny joe meek compressor sound completely unmodern. Almost like a garage band recorded it in the 60s. Its not an Abbey road sound or anything, but it doesnt sound like anything thats been on the radio in 30 years (im referring to the sonic character). So thats why it blows my mind that people who are after a vintage sound still sound so modern. I think to get it to sound older you have to let the guitar play a very auxiliary role in the mix. People these days are too into guitar and they over play the parts and make it too loud. Same for drums. Modern bass players would rather trample the groove by playing something complex rather than try to lock into the stop and go feel that i think is essential to good bass playing. The pauses between notes are more important than the notes themselves if you really listen to the great old bass players.

I think its probably chicks fault that modern music sucks.
 
Jillchaw said:
I just hate new recordings as well as new music.

I hate to say that i dont think there is much nostalgia factoring in. I wasnt alive even in the 70s. Its an audible difference.

Musicians back then also played to serve the song. Musicians these days have too much personal BS in their playing. Every dude in the drum section of guitar center is doing quad kick drum patterns and rolls with one hand, yet todays music sucks.

I think live recording to save tracks also factored into the sound as well as track bouncing.

Man in know im just a dumbass punk in his bedroom but i swear my recordings on my cheezy tascam 38 through my tiny joe meek compressor sound completely unmodern. Almost like a garage band recorded it in the 60s. Its not an Abbey road sound or anything, but it doesnt sound like anything thats been on the radio in 30 years (im referring to the sonic character). So thats why it blows my mind that people who are after a vintage sound still sound so modern. I think to get it to sound older you have to let the guitar play a very auxiliary role in the mix. People these days are too into guitar and they over play the parts and make it too loud. Same for drums. Modern bass players would rather trample the groove by playing something complex rather than try to lock into the stop and go feel that i think is essential to good bass playing. The pauses between notes are more important than the notes themselves if you really listen to the great old bass players.

I think its probably chicks fault that modern music sucks.
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Good post. Before my "career" in music got going, my best friend was the electronic tech and engineer in training at a local studio. This was the mid to late '70's. Besides having keys to the place and doing endless hours of experimenting on top of the line equipment for the time (Neve, Struder etc.) after hours, I had the opportunity to watch and help out on a ton of sessions.

When a band new to recording came in, it was almost always the same routine: the drummer would come in with a massive Neil Peart type kit. We'd get everything miced up and levels set etc and let them take a crack at their song. The producer would then send me and my buddy into the tracking room and take away all the drums except the kick, snare and hi hat. The drummers would always be really pissed off at this obviously. The producers would say: "the kick goes boom, the snare goes swack and the hi hats go tick tick tick. When you get the boom, swack and ticks in perfect time we'll let you have one tom back." :D

It usually worked.
 
Jillchaw said:
thanks, i thought everyone would be insulting me!
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Hell no! Your post echoed a lot of the stuff I learned 30 years ago. The spaces and "air" in a recording is what makes it great a lot of times. And having a rythym section grooving and playing in the pocket is a wonderful thing. A lot of people (IMHO) get confused as to what we are all trying to do. We should be serving the song. Everything we do from coming up with parts to the final mastering should be to make what ever piece of music we are working on the best it can be. Again IMHO, YMMV etc etc....

Now if I can just convince the 1's and 0's in FruityLoops. :D
 
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