I've Got One Shot - Help Dad Get It Right

Rich_S

Rich_S

Member
My high school junior (who wants to compose video-game music someday) has composed a piece which her choir director has agreed to perform at their spring "pops" concert next week with my daughter conducting. Am I proud? Insanely so.

She was asking me tonight if, instead of the usual cellphone recording, I would video tape it on our camcorder (slightly elderly, 8mm digital tape). Of course I will, though somehow I think the camcorder's built-in mic probably isn't much better than today's average iPhone. But the camcorder has a tripod socket, so that's a point in its favor.

Anyway, that got me thinking about recording the performance. I don't want to be intrusive, or get involved with rehearsals in advance, but I could get away with sticking some mics out front and recording it with my laptop. To be honest, I've done almost NO actually recording with the Reaper rig; I just use it for mixing old cassette 4-tracks.

This will be a fairly typical high school choir, maybe 60 kids arrayed in the usual arc, four or five rows deep. Important technical detail: this concert will be out-of-doors (unless it gets moved inside at the last minute due to rain, which is what almost always happens).

So, by virtue of the fact that it's what I already have, it will be Reaper, Windows laptop, Scarlett 2i2 (or 2i4, we have both) and then... microphones. I'm assuming a stereo pair is the easiest and least obtrusive, but the only mics I have a "pair" of are Sennheiser e840's (which came as a pair because they were 2-for-1 when MF closed them out a few years ago). Beside those, all I have are a single SM58 and a single SM57. Given that, I see three alternatives:

  1. Use the e840's; they're "good enough" and their built-in windscreens might come in handy outside.
  2. Talk to my neighbor who teaches audio engineering at the local college, and see if he has a better pair of mics (i.e. condensers) in his personal locker, or can borrow something from school
  3. Don't bother; just stick with the camcorder (which will be there and running whether I bring an audio setup or not).
Also, if I go with solutions 1 or 2, what's the best/easiest/fool-proofiest mic placement? Both mics mounted on the same stand? Pointed out, or crossed? Or, mounted farther apart on separate stands?

Keep in mind that I'm out of town on business this week, so whatever method I choose, I'll need to pull it together fast. I'll basically have two days next week to beg/borrow/steal (and preferably not buy) the gear I need (if any) and patch it all together in the studio/family room for a trail run before taking it (literally) to the field.

All advice and suggestions welcome.
 
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The simplicity of the camcorder video/audio is it's strong point. If you can place it out in front of the crowd, you should be OK...in back, you will pick up the crowd too.

Remember also, if you record audio separately on your laptop, you then have to sync/lock it to the video...though, maybe it being a choir, there won't be as big a worry about lip-sync, so even if the audio is a few frames off, it won't be notice...but if you want solid sync...you have to get the sample and frame rate the same, so when you merge the audio later with video, it will be in sync throughout.

AFA the mics you have...mmmm...those are all dynamics, and not a great choice for stereo miking a choir. A couple of condensers would be better...and you don't need very high-end, so borrow or buy them. Being outdoors...hard to say if you should go with an LCD or SCD pair. The LCD will certainly be affected by wind, etc easier.

Since you say there this always ends up getting moved inside...you should keep your setup small and lean, IMO...so you can move quickly too.'
Personally...I would prary for rain all day, that way you will know it will be inside, and much better acoustics than outside for a small/lean setup. :)
 
I should mention that I don't intend to sync the audio to the video. If I record the audio separately, it will just be to have a better recording than what the camcorder's getting.

On second thought, if I DID decide to sync them, I assume I should run the Scarlett at 48 kHz? Here's a snip from the ol' camcorder's spec sheet:

Sony_Camcorder.JPG
 
Borrow a pair of SDCs from your friend. If he is teaching audio engineering, he should have access to a versatile mic locker. Something along the line of Shure KSM-137s or KSM-141s in XY like you said. Record with the 2i2 or 2i4. Video with a couple of iphones in different locations, and the camcorder. Get as much as you can and bring it all into a video editor and take the best of what you got.

The camcorder and iphones will pick up everything. The SDCs will be a little more selective. Windscreens are a must outdoors.

The camcorder and iphones will probably have different aspect rations, but that's okay. You can edit individual video tracks to make it work.

It's a great opportunity for your daughter, I hope you can capture it well. No pressure, Dad. :)
 
Reading those specs, you might do better staying with the iphones. Not trying to make a joke...
 
Having done video since Hi8 was the good consumer option I can say that analog video probably won't sync with the audio for all that long before you have to correct it. But that's just a matter of duplicating or deleting a frame or two now and then. When I was doing it I had to edit in a linear fashion, but with nonlinear editors there's a lot you can do to compensate.

And there's no reason you couldn't do the iPhone in addition to give you some editing options.
 
While we’re on the subject of Dadly pride, the daughter in question just won the Long Jump in Sectionals. She’s going to States. It’s going to be a busy week.
 
Chili said:
Borrow a pair of SDCs from your friend. If he is teaching audio engineering, he should have access to a versatile mic locker. Something along the line of Shure KSM-137s or KSM-141s in XY like you said. Record with the 2i2 or 2i4. Video with a couple of iphones in different locations, and the camcorder. Get as much as you can and bring it all into a video editor and take the best of what you got.

The camcorder and iphones will pick up everything. The SDCs will be a little more selective. Windscreens are a must outdoors.

The camcorder and iphones will probably have different aspect rations, but that's okay. You can edit individual video tracks to make it work.

It's a great opportunity for your daughter, I hope you can capture it well. No pressure, Dad. :)
Click to expand...

This seems like a good setup to me too.
 
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Can you beg/borrow a hard drive/DVD recorder (Google Toshiba RD100 for an example)? Assuming the camcorder has a CVBS output that can feed such a machine and give you virtually unlimited running time (on HDD, 2hrs on DVD).

Yes, use SDCs as a co-I pair into the Scarlet and the laptop but split a feed to the HD recorder. That rig gives you a 24 bit 48kHz PC recording but also a synced video recording.

I did this many years ago for my son. He needed to record both video and sound together of him on guitar for a reference to get a job on a ship*. I had him, mic and mixer/PC setup in a bedroom then co-ax and audio lines out into the living room where the recorder was housed.

*Did not get the job. My eyes! Those guys are GOOD!

Dave.
 
One thing strikes me so hard, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it. You can have the biggest pile of expensive wonderful kit in the world, but a one-shot event is NOT the time to connect it all together and push record. Video cameras, especially I found, video 8 have surprisingly good audio capabilities - when used sensibly. Most were stereo, a few mono, but the mics were the usual type of electret condenser, and pretty decent really. Your recording scenario is confused and uncontrolled - not your fault, but you cannot just plonk out a few mics, connect them to equipment you've not become competent at using and expect decent results. Recording just doesn't work like this. Our Military have a good term - The 6 P's. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. Over the years this has proven itself over and over again.

This statement sums it up.
I don't want to be intrusive, or get involved with rehearsals in advance, but I could get away with sticking some mics out front and recording it with my laptop. To be honest, I've done almost NO actually recording with the Reaper rig
Click to expand...
There is NO WAY of not being intrusive if you want a good result - and the idea of just "sticking some mics out" fills me with despair for you. You don't want to even find out how they're going to play, or what the dynamics will be, or what they're layout is, or hear and really obvious problems? Amazing.

Put the camera out where nobody can kick it, away from idiots who will stand next to it and say loudly "ooh it's being recorded" and tell them in advance - it is what it is. It's going to be down to luck. Live stereo recording of choral, orchestral and chamber groups is the hardest thing you can ever record, and amateur groups doubly so because their conductor will be very unskilled too - conductors don't just start them and finish them - they balance them, and control them. This in amateur groups is usually absent totally - so they won't have even thought about balancing - moving the very loud, but musically inept person to the back row, and moving the beautifully voiced, but shy person from the back to the front where the voice will fill out the sound. Very often the vocalists fight the music and one or the other wins.

I would urge you to reconsider being clever and technical. Test the camera and see what it sounds like. You cannot record like this, I think the success rate would be perhaps 25%, by luck.
 
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