Issue Capturing Reverb from Guitar Amp

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I'm having a really hard time capturing the sound I'm hearing coming from the amp. I'm trying an SM57 on a Vox AC30 and Fender Deluxe, as well as a large diaphragm condenser. I've tried the 57 up close at various points on the speaker (ie. on-axis, off-axis, at the centre, two inches form the centre) and the condenser typically about two feet back. When it's good and clean, I can capture some of the reverb, but if I'm using a dirty tone or thick overdrive, it just becomes mud. The easy fix has been to turn the reverb off on the amp and just add it as a plug-in, but obviously I really want to capture what I'm hearing in the room. The amp reverb also helps with note sustain so turning it off, I lose some of that sustain as well.

I've watched a dozen videos on YouTube about recording guitar and I feel like I'm doing everything I should be. Is it perhaps a mic preamp issue? I'm using an M-Audio M-Track Eight interface with the built-in preamps.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.
 
Find a spot in the room where you are standing, where the amp/reverb sounds good to you.

Put the condenser there and set it to Omni...leave the 57 at the cab...and see how that works for you.
Your ears are going to hear things differently than a mic can, but trying it in Omni, up at the same height/spot your ears are, might get you what you want.
And record each mic to its own track...that way you can blend as needed.

TBH...I never record the amp reverb...at least I don't recall ever doing it...maybe once?
Main reasons...I never really like amp reverbs for recording. Some of them can sound decent in a live setting, but it's just cheesy spring reverb stuff. I can get much tastier reverbs during mixdown, either from plugs or one of my outboard reverb units.
Also...I don't want to marry the reverb and guitar track up front...because then I'm stuck with the reverb sound, and if I want something else during mixdown, it's not going to happen without making a mess of it.
 
Your ears hear amp+reverb in a 3-D room.
Mic hears amp and its verb and maybe some room one-D'.

Granted that still leaves 'it works clean but not so well with the distortion.
All I can add there is sort of a rule of thumb. The quality(ies') of reverbs are in a large part what you send them.
 
I'm with Miro - I turn the reverb OFF on the amp when I'm recording, and add it with a plug-in. so much more control
 
I'd be willing to bet it doesn't actually sound that great in the room either, but it's loud so you're cool. ;) Probably both too much distortion and too much verb.

Get down in front of the speakers as you turn the knobs. Point it at your face as you play.

There are good reasons to use the spring reverb on an amp rather than try to fake it with a plugin. Spring reverb really is better thought of as a special effect rather than as ambience. Some things really just need that fwip thing, and it does make a difference whether that hits the power amp with the rest of the signal or not.
 
"Use normal channel for reverb control – Adjust EQ and depth of reverb."

This mod is relevant only for two-channel amps with normal and vibrato channel. This trick is great for the reverb enthusiasts among us, and who is not? Plug your guitar into the vibrato channel, then unplug the reverb return cable on the back of the amp (the one that comes from the reverb tank output) and plug it into the normal channel input. You will need a converter to go from male phono/RCA jack to a 1/4″ male jack. You may now use the normal channel as a reverb control where you can adjust the depth and tone using the volume, bright switch, treble and bass knobs (and mid if you have a Twin Reverb). The reverb knob on the vibrato channel will have no effect any longer.

This mod is not applicable together with the Pull V1 mod, as you need the normal channel preamp tube."
BF/SF Super Reverb | fenderguru.com

Just to toss this in there ;)
 
miroslav already said it but a condenser on omni where you like to stand in addition to the 57 on the cab might get you closer to what you wanna hear. Remember what you are hearing in the room is not going to be captured by a close mic. Also I'm a fan or adding reverb after too rather than recording amp reverb.
 
miroslav said:
Find a spot in the room where you are standing, where the amp/reverb sounds good to you.

Put the condenser there and set it to Omni...leave the 57 at the cab...and see how that works for you.
Your ears are going to hear things differently than a mic can, but trying it in Omni, up at the same height/spot your ears are, might get you what you want.
And record each mic to its own track...that way you can blend as needed.
Click to expand...

mixsit said:
Your ears hear amp+reverb in a 3-D room.
Mic hears amp and its verb and maybe some room one-D'.
Click to expand...

I too prefer "in-the-box" 'verb over my spring, but that's not the question that was asked.

The stereo issue that mixsit pointed out is gonna be a big part of it. A complex sound like a reverbed guitar in a room is going to lose a lot of data when bounced down to mono.
It might be worth taking miro's idea and using an X/Y pair of mics instead of a condenser/omni.
 
Ashcat makes a good point. How much of what you're hearing in the room do you really want to record? I've spend more time recording a Fender Deluxe than any other amp, and while it's a beautiful tone, it's probably putting out a lot of rogue low frequency information that sounds fine in the room and in the moment but that I do not want cluttering up my mix. Too much reverb makes it worse.

I also record amp reverb, and in fact all guitar FX. If you're going to do it that way, try using less than you think.

Beyond what the others have said, I would ask how are you monitoring? As much as possible, you want to base your decisions on what is coming through the mic to your monitors, not what your ears are hearing in the room. If you are standing next to a loud amp and trying to make critical decisions based on what you hear through headphones, you're making life harder. If that's your system, you're going to have to record a number of sample takes as you dial in your amp and mic position. Then listen back to the recorded tone through your studio monitors and adjust accordingly. There is a simpler solution, which is to get the amp out of the room where you are monitoring. Put the amp in another room and run the guitar and mic cables under the door. Use a buffered tuner in your guitar chain to reduce signal loss. Five or ten minutes of hopping back and forth between your control room and your amp will save you time in the long run and, in my experience, give better results.
 
Robus said:
...
I also record amp reverb, and in fact all guitar FX. If you're going to do it that way, try using less than you think.

Beyond what the others have said, I would ask how are you monitoring? As much as possible, you want to base your decisions on what is coming through the mic to your monitors, not what your ears are hearing in the room. If you are standing next to a loud amp and trying to make critical decisions based on what you hear through headphones, you're making life harder. If that's your system, you're going to have to record a number of sample takes as you dial in your amp and mic position. Then listen back to the recorded tone through your studio monitors and adjust accordingly. There is a simpler solution, which is to get the amp out of the room where you are monitoring. Put the amp in another room and run the guitar and mic cables under the door. Use a buffered tuner in your guitar chain to reduce signal loss. Five or ten minutes of hopping back and forth between your control room and your amp will save you time in the long run and, in my experience, give better results.
Click to expand...
This.

..I also record amp reverb, and in fact all guitar FX. If you're going to do it that way, try using less than you think.
Click to expand...
I just realized, based on the 'tweak on that Fender site, it would also mean you could easily capture the output of our reverb tanks as a second track instrument level feed.
 
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