Instrument cable vs. line level cable

P

Person01

New member
Hello,

I am attempting to record my keyboard. Its only output is a 1/4 TRS (stereo). When I plug my headphones in, the piano sounds great; however, when I set it up for recording, it sounds distant and not as clear. I am using a TS cable to my DAC, which is plugged into my computer. I am pretty sure the problem is with the cable. I tried other TS cables and a TRS to 2 TS, but they all sounded the same. It is not a problem with going from stereo TRS to mono TS.

The cables I used are instrument cables. Is there any difference between an instrument cable and a line level cable? If I got a line level cable, would the problem be fixed?

If not, would a short TS cable (about a foot) work better? The ones I have are 10 - 20 feet.

Thank you for your help.
 
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The problem may not be the cable (oh...there's no such thing as a "TR" cable...I think you mean TS, which is Tip/Sleeve, and TRS which is Tip/Ring/Sleeve).

I think your problem is that you are going from an instrument output to a line input..so you will lose signal level.
Does your converter have an instrument level input?
If not...get a DI box...and then you can go instrument to whatever,

Direct Boxes | Sweetwater.com
 
I believe my keyboard's output is line level. Changing my converter to instrument level did not affect the sound (still sounded distant) other then the amplitude (its amplitude is good at line level).
 
I can't imagine that keyboard's output isn't line level. 10-20 feet should make no difference with a line level signal. Did you go through a troubleshooting routine? You can get good output from the keyboard through your headset, so that's probably not your problem (double check the settings menus all the same). You've tried several cables, which probably rules that out. Are you able to receive good input from other devices on your input unit? In the stereo TRS-dual mono 1/4" setup, are you sure your input unit is set up to record a stereo signal?

Let us know. I'm guessing you'll be having one of those "dooh!" moments when you discover the problem.
 
It sounds like you need a TRS stereo to TS left and TS right splitter. (Like an insert cable) This is assuming that the keyboard output is the headphone jack.

YOu have to make sure that the TRS part is plugged all the way in and properly seated. Otherwise, you will end up with a mono signal that is the difference between the right and the left. Which will sound reverby, hollow and far away.
 
Farview said:
It sounds like you need a TRS stereo to TS left and TS right splitter. (Like an insert cable) This is assuming that the keyboard output is the headphone jack.
Click to expand...

This has solved most of the reverb problem (it still is not great). I did do that before, which is why I said, "it is not a problem with going from stereo TRS to mono TS," but there was one spot on my computer that I forgot to change to stereo when testing the insert cable.

It is still not quite as good as I was hoping. I have thought of one other thing. My insert cable is pretty cheap. Would a better quality cable improve the results?
 
It is really unlikely the cable is the issue.

I'm not sure what you were hoping for. As long as you are recording to two mono tracks and have them panned wide, or are recording to a stereo track, you should be getting what the keyboard is putting out.

You never mention what the keyboard is...
 
The keyboard is a Casio WK-225 and the audio interface is a M-Audio M-Track. As I mentioned in my previous post, I solved the major problem. Now it sounds much better but is still not quite as good as the output straight to headphones.

I am currently running a stereo TRS (keyboard output) to 2 mono TS. The cable is an insert cable. Each mono track is panned 100% and I can tell the stereo is working.

I have used the DAC, computer, and software with other devices and they work great. Connecting directly to the keyboard (1/8 TRS stereo headphones through a 1/8 TRS to 1/4 TRS adapter to the keyboard 1/4 TRS stereo output) sounds great.

It is not a huge problem anymore, but it just bugs me that it does not sound the same as the keyboard output.

Farview said:
As long as you are recording to two mono tracks and have them panned wide, or are recording to a stereo track, you should be getting what the keyboard is putting out.
Click to expand...

That is what I keep thinking, but apparently not...
 
So, when you plug the headphones into the interface, you don't hear the same thing as plugging the headphones into the keyboard? Something must be changing it. While none of the gear is super high end, it really shouldn't change something that radically.
 
Farview said:
So, when you plug the headphones into the interface, you don't hear the same thing as plugging the headphones into the keyboard? Something must be changing it. While none of the gear is super high end, it really shouldn't change something that radically.
Click to expand...

That is correct.
 
miroslav said:
Right...with headphones you get that immersed sound, then you listen on the monitors and it doesn't sound the same.

Put the headphones away. ;)
Click to expand...

I am using headphones (the same ones) with the keyboard, interface and computer. I forgot to mention that.
 
arcaxis said:
May not help the issue, but cheap to try...

The headphones jack is expecting to have fairly low impedance headphones plugged in. I couldn't find the spec on the interface you have, but the impedance it would present to the headphone jack would be considerably higher than that of headphones. It's remotely possible the Casio doesn't act well when connected to a high impedance for some reason. Using a stereo headphone splitter you could have the headphones connected along with the interface which would put the correct load on the output and perhaps may help the sound. Not a lot of faith this would work, but if nothing else you'll have a headphone splitter you might be able to use elsewhere :)

Amazon.com: Hosa YPP118 1/4 TRS To Dual 1/4 TRS Female Y Cable: Electronics
Click to expand...


I'll try that. Thanks for the help.
 
Two thoughts.

First, you may be having a problem with line level voltage if you have your keyboard phone level at zero when recording. You certainly want to avoid overloading the signal, which will clip like crazy if you're not careful. But don't turn it completely off. Just nudge it a little - like 10% or something. See if that makes any difference.

Second, you could be having an issue with varying impedance in your output signal. Your keyboard specs indicate that the phones / output jack is rated at 140 ohms impedance. That is in the class of "low impedance" signals, which should allow an uncomplicated signal path. However, a device's specified output impedance is usually accurate for only one given frequency. The actual impedance will change an unknown amount with changes in frequency. While it can be measured and averaged, your manual doesn't give that information, so it remains an unknown.

The solution to this (if it actually is a problem) will be to use a direct box, which converts any incoming signal to a low impedance outgoing signal and contains circuitry intended to keep the impedance of the outgoing signal reliably low. If you can borrow a good quality DI box, you could test the theory and see if the signal sounds better.
 
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