I need headroom!

C

CJSutton

New member
Before I go spending my car payment money on a bunch of gadgets and equipment that won't improve my situation.....

I'd like some basic info for my main problem of modern recording -- how do I get the signal to be loud without exceeding 0db and causing that obnoxious clipping?

I use Cakewalk 9.0 on my PC, and I'm running a samson Tm500 mixer into the input of my soundblaster (i know, i should probably get a new sound card first of all)

My question really falls into two categories specifically -

(A) would having a +4db output (mixer) and a +4db input (sound card) make the track as loud as possible, or does that not affect it?

(B) what mastering software are you guys using to get the overall signal to be loud? everytime i try to get something loud, it just clips. even close to 0db, it's just not as loud as CDs and other recordings.

Thanks to all in advance.
 
The first lesson you need to unlearn is that louder IS NOT better....

The second lesson is that songs are mixed well-below 0dBFS, so it's perfectly normal for your mixes to be much softer in level compared to commercial CDs -- it's at the mastering phase that hyper-signal levels get introduced via compression/limiting - at the significant expense of a song's dynamics....
 
try not, do or do not.

Yes, yes, I understand that louder <> better....

however, i am only 25. and the guys i record (including myself) are not interested in dynamics...we just want VOLUME.

so...in that case...what mastering software should i be using? what db level are modern loud recordings mastered at?
 
CJSutton said:
the guys i record (including myself) are not interested in dynamics...we just want VOLUME.
Click to expand...
Ah, youth is wasted on the young. :D

Seriously, though, the above clip of your quote is practically the very definition of dynamic compression. If you really want you stuff to sound loud - though I thought that's what volume controls on stereos were for - that's done by squashing out the dynamics with a compressor. There's any number of software plugs for compressors, ranging in price from free to a few hundred bucks that will work with Cakewalk.

If you want better quality, get an external analog compressor. An average-quality dbx or ART compressor will cost you a car payment. We won't even talk about the big boy compressors like Manley or UA which will cost you the full-delivered price of a used motorcycle.

G.
 
Loudness is more related to RMS rather than peak level. You need to do some compression/limiting to insure your peak signals don't exceed 0 dB but raise the RMS level. You'll need a meter on your master fader that can display both peak and RMS levels. Elemental Audio makes one they give away for free called Inspector. You'll then need a stereo compressor and stereo limiter to smash the shit out of it. The type you use depends on your budget. More than likely it won't sound very good doing it yourself. Try to get your friends/band mates used to listening to your recorded tracks with the volume on their stereo turned up a bit more than usual. It will have the same effect and sound alot better.
 
For casual use, Sound Forge/CD Architect, and Wavelab all provide Limiters to raise overall level, and there's no one dB level that everyone shoots for....
 
CJSutton said:
Yes, yes, I understand that louder <> better....

however, i am only 25. and the guys i record (including myself) are not interested in dynamics...we just want VOLUME.
Click to expand...

Then turn up the darn amp when you are listening to the mix! ;)
 
oh you guys :)

haha. i expected these kinds of answers....because i agree with a lot of it. but kids these days want shit as loud as possible on stereo volume 1. i'm trying to avoid looking "old" to my clientele.... plus some of the bands i record are doing single tracks for compilations, and need the volume to be equivalent to other, more expensively-produced tracks. *shrug*

so basically...compression is what i'm looking for? also, would a +4dbu sound card improve my sound overall (my mixer recording output goes up to +4db)?
 
CJSutton said:
plus some of the bands i record are doing single tracks for compilations, and need the volume to be equivalent to other, more expensively-produced tracks. *shrug*
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In the case of single tracks for compilations - are you mastering the compilation? If not leave it to the ME who is.
 
A better souncard might certainly improve the quality of your recordings, but a +4 dBu output won't make your mixes louder.
 
CJSutton said:
so basically...compression is what i'm looking for?
Click to expand...

Compression, then limiting. Get a mastering program and learn how to use it, basically. It will come with a limiting plug.

also, would a +4dbu sound card improve my sound overall (my mixer recording output goes up to +4db)?
Click to expand...

Not really. If you have a mismatch in nominal operating level, you just have to adjust for it, but the dynamics don't change. For example, with a +4 mixer and -10 soundcard, you'd need to attenuate the mixer 12 dB before it hits the soundcard.

However, a +4 soundcard will come with better converters, which will improve your sound quality--at least before you kill it with multiband compression ;)

And if you're running a commercial studio, you'll need a multi input soundcard anyway.
 
I don't really understand what this question has to do with headroom.


It's a limiting question. Use a limiter and be happy.

Keith
 
headroom

yeah, it kind of doesn't have much to do with headroom. i guess i just wanted some feedback about whether the input signals i am recording are much different from everyone else's.... to me, i just want a louder signal before it clips, which to me means more headroom. but i guess as long as i have a low signal-to-noise ratio, i can pump the volume up with a compressor/limiter.

thanks for all the help. i think i'm set.
 
CJSutton said:
yeah, it kind of doesn't have much to do with headroom. i guess i just wanted some feedback about whether the input signals i am recording are much different from everyone else's.... to me, i just want a louder signal before it clips, which to me means more headroom.
Click to expand...

In the analog world that's true. But in digital the concept is different; 0dBFS is as loud as it gets. Thus, to sound louder, you have to get your average level (RMS) closer to that 0dBFS maximum, and the way to do it is with gobs of compression DURING MASTERING.

You don't want to record all your tracks with peaks at -0.3dB or heavily compressed, because it really makes you life miserable during mixdown. Track normally, with plenty of 'digital headroom', meaning that you keep your peaks at -6dB or so. Don't worry about pegging the meter, because if you get an over during tracking you are screwed.

Next, during mixdown, apply compression only as needed to individual tracks to make 'em sound right in the mix.

Once you have a stereo mix, then you can worry about limiting to increase loudness, if you are doing the mastering yourself.
 
Yep, and try to track a 24-bit if you can too. If your soundcard doesn't support that then you should definitely consider upgrading.
 
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