I need advice about recording my first band for $$

S

Speedy VonTrapp

New member
Hey all, I'd like everyone that's got any opinion on this to speak up, and let me know what you think, because I am not sure what my best course of action is.

I'm currently recording a band, that so far as been just live recordings for rehersal purposes, but once they get a few songs down, we'll start tracking a song or 2 for real, and see how they like it. I'm doing it pretty much for free, as it's my wife's brother's band, and they want me to sing for them, so I'm looking at it as possibly recording my band.

They're happy with the way things are going, and are optimistic at a decent demo recording when they're ready for one.

At this past weekends rehersal, the bass player approached me, and told me that some friend of his wants to do a "Who" tribute album of some sort. I don't know if he knows a band that wants to record one song to be on the album, or if he knows someone that wants to record a whole album. At any rate, he mentions me to his friend, and they want to know what I would charge to record them.

My response was, that, quite honestly, depending on what they're looking for, I might very well be a huge disappointment. I don't have superb equipment, and most of all, I'm still pretty green. He didn't seem to be phased by this, and I let him know that I suppose a person has to cut his teeth somewhere, right?

I told him to tell his friend, that if they're interested in a serious recording, that the smartest, and most important thing they can do, is make sure that the person/people doing the recording can give them a sample of something they've already done. Something that I cannot do yet. I have one semi-quality recording, that I've posted HERE in the mixing clinic before, but it's a few acoustic guitar tracks, and a couple vocal tracks, not quite "Who" material.

So, the delima is, let's say that they say that they want to pursue using me, because I would be inexpensive, and understand that I am not a pro, but know that their friend is comfortable with recommending me, etc, and they tell me that they definitely want to know what I'd charge them for it. Now what should I do?

I would love to take a crack at this, if the band is ready to go, and I don't have to do much more than track what they already know they can play well. On the other hand, I'd hate to sound like "sure I'll give you whatever you want," then have them be let down. Not that I think I'm super bad, I'm just new, and still learning. This could be a great learning experience, but I don't want to end up having my name smeared around, either, in case I want to record for someone else someday when I get better.

So, what would you do? Would you tell them that you're not ready? Would you tell them you'd do it? If you told them you'll do it, what would you think I should charge? The first thing that came to my mind was a very small $10 an hour. I know it's not much, but until I've proven that I can do better, shouldn't I start low?

I'm a bit stuck, so anybody that has an opinion or experience with this kind of situation, please post what you think.

And Chessrock, if you read this, you've probably got a bit more insight than most people on this board when it comes to my lack of readiness for this type of situation, so don't worry about telling me to not even bother, I'd understand it. ;)



For the moment, I'm assuming they they want one song. In case they want a whole album, throw up an opinion about that, as well, if you like.


Thanks for the opinions!

-Speedy
 
When I recorded my friend's band for a crappy demo they could send around (crappy because of my skills, not theirs) all I charged them was food.

That was one Big Mac meal with an orange soda.
 
Hey Speed, Good question.

A lot of people will ask, "Do you think your services merit compensation?" and, "Aren't you taking away from more experienced engineers and better equipped studios?"

I don't think it's a matter of that. There are certainly better engineers in my area who might even charge less than me or give away studio time.

For me, I charge now because my time is too valuable to give away. When I'm not recording others, I'm writing, arranging or recording for my own two projects. If you'd be playing nintendo instead of recording, then maybe you can afford to give away studio time.

Stone
 
the first band i recorded WAS indeed my own. so i did have SOME practice.

the next band was a friends band, and they knew it COULD sound like crap. anyway, i charged them 60 bucks - for the whole day. and i spent a long time fooling with it, etc. etc. on my own time. it was GREAT practice, and kinda fun too - since i enjoyed doing it. and hey, 60 bucks. haha. definately that was one of the greatest things i've learned was just recording a band. each time i record i learn more and it gets better, too.

Now i'm charging about 150 (i know, for what i got i could easily charge more, but its for the kids! ha) - and shit sounds tite. MASS people call me to record.

so i say, if you don't care about money, get some experiance - it's worth more in the long run. food sounds like good payment...haha

by the way, i just checked out your mp3. vocals sound great - nice nice singing (you i am guessing? ha). guitar sound out of tune...haha. but that's not so bad. you should go for the full band thing, try it out.
 
Start with recording/mixing one song, for free, that will serve as a 'preview' of your recording/mixing skills. Then you can agree on a price. Don't sell yourself too cheap tho.
 
sounds like your head's in the right place

ok, long story and then a recommendation: :D

i ran into a similar situation with my band's bass player and his "side project", if you wanna call it that (him and another guy--bass and acoustic/vocals) a while back. they wanted me to lay down 5 or 6 tunes for them in an afternoon (quick mixdown included). prior to this, i'd done a bit of "self recording" of acoustic and vocals, done a bit of live sound, and recorded my band's practices a plenty. so i wasn't exactly "green", but i hadn't ever done it for someone else on the clock.

at the time, my gear consisted of a mackie 2404, a vtb1, an SP B1, a handful of sm57/8's, a pair of 603's, a pair of m-audio sp5b monitors and an audiophile 2496. the best i had was 2 tracks into the computer at once, and they "had" to play together (at the same time), which really hampered things in terms of recording the acoustic in stereo. also note the glaring hole where "monitoring for the musicians" should be located.

after much gnashing of teeth, i put together a plan. i set the 603's in XY up in front of the acoustic and summed them to one track, and then i plugged the bass into the vtb1 and ran it direct. we monitored everything through the monitors (sp5b's) live (and yes, there was bleed). to boot, it was difficult for the guitarist to play and not sing--he just wasn't used to it, but he managed ok. we laid down vocal tracks with the B1 later, again using the monitors as you would live monitors. he's a pretty dynamic singer (in terms of untrained and wild levels)....i really could've used a compressor :D.

and it still turned out quite ok. a hell of a lot better than they could've done on their own with an sm58 and a portastudio, and we ended up bartering for some other services instead of them paying me (the bass player does sheetrocking and i've got a basement to finish :D). they were thrilled with it, even though i never gave it more than a "how's that sound?" 5-minute a song once-over mixdown while they were out here the day we tracked it all. i've since remixed it and it sounds a lot better, but the original mixes sounded "ok" considering.

since then, i've acquired quite a bit of gear. the last "immediate" piece is the delta 1010 i've got on the way, and i'm dying for them to come back out. i can't decide what i'm gonna charge em, but it'll be somewhere around $15/hr, or a flat rate per song. or maybe more goods and services, i dunno. :P

==========

ok, so this is what i'd do: sounds like you've been upfront with em from the start on your gear and experience, and it sounds like you both seem to want to work together. those are both HUGE plusses.

i'd have them come out for an afternoon, run through a thorough-yet-basic setup/soundcheck (don't fine-tooth drums for 4 days, but get decent/usable sounds), and then just hammer out a couple tracks. don't worry about getting "the best take", just get a couple songs down to tape, scratch vocals, warts and all.....with maybe a couple alternate takes of the songs if they felt like "doing it again". no overdubs!!--just get the "band live in the studio".

then, give the band a quick mix of that. tell them that it's obviously not as good a work you could get out of a "for real" session with overdubs, etc., but it should give them an idea of what you can accomplish given the time that you did it in. it'll also give the band an idea of what kind of product you can produce (if not just in an afternoon). sure it's rushed and not "ideal", but it's a starting point since you have no other reference material.

don't charge them for this "test session". at least, not much more than lunch. ;-) they have to work like you do in that they've gotta setup, play and breakdown, but in the end, it's you who'll be getting the $$ for the work (hopefully). the goal of this is to help the band see that you're not out to make a quick buck with a crappy recording.

if the band doesn't like it, it's real easy to say "nothing lost" from it. they're only out an afternoon, but they did get to jam for a while and they have a recording of it to boot. you're only out an afternoon and you gained some experience. i can't see it being a lose-lose situation if no cash changes hands.

if the band likes it, then you can negotiate a price for the next session. in this sort of scenario, i'd prolly lean towards a "per song" rate rather than a per-hour rate. mainly b/c they'd be pissed if they're paying you to dick around for 20 minutes figuring out why the cans aren't working or b/c the computer's freaking out on you. :D with a flat rate, there's no grousing about "wasting time in the studio".....you can say $100/song (or whatever) and that way tracking and mixing are included. you can also really sell yourself short if they try to take advantage of you. sounds like they're good folks, and i wouldn't be too concerned of that.

and we all know this, but a lot of musicians don't--mixing takes a lot more time than bands tend to realise. a LOT more. the bass player from my story above nearly shit himself when i told him i'd spent a little over an hour on each song when i remixed it, and we all know that that's really not that long (even though it was just acoustic, bass and vox). he was like "AN HOUR?!? they're only like 4 minute songs!" i just told him i could've easily spent 5 hours on each song tweaking this and that, looking for just a little closer to perfekt. especially given the amount of bleed in the tracks--although, that much bleed almost dictates your mix to you instead.


bottom line, as long as you and the band are honest with each other and on the same page, i think you'll be fine. like you said, when someone says "oh yeah, i can do that" and then doesn't deliver.....that's when problems happen.

and as cyndi lauper said, money changes everything.


wade
 
Speedy,
I would offer up similar advice about offering to do one (simple) song (hopefully not a 10 minute one) for free just to see if you can catch their vibe and please them. After that charge them say $10 an hour for tracking and mixing. (editing as well if they are horrible) Tell them you wont charge them for experimenting or for your errors.The reason for the money is twofold. One, you need to be able to buy better equipment. (no one can fault you for that ) And second, it puts the limitation of $ on how much they put a demand on your time. I have found that even my closest musician buddies become oblivious to how much effort they are requesting of me unless the pain of the pocket comes into play.
It will be eye opening. Some people are easy, some have such unattainble expectations no one could make them happy. It would be better to find that out under the commitment of one song than an albums worth
 
Thanks!

All good ideas/advice/opinions here.

I think, based on what I've read here, is that I'll talk to them, and just continue to be honest with them, and if they want to pursue something, we'll just work something out. Maybe for money, maybe for lunch at first. I'll just feel it out, and let the natural course of the conversation dictate where we go from there.

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

-Speedy



edit: typo
 
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I like the idea of bartering or something similar. Tell them you'll do one song if they provide the beer and pizza or something to that effect.

I am in the process of recording my old band. I am completely green (been at this about 6 months or so) and I barely have enough equipment to cover the basics.

I recorded a 3-song demo for them a few months ago and they really liked the job I did. Now they want a whole album (11 songs). The 3-song demo I did completely for free because I wanted the experience. Here's one of the songs we did:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=3498&alid=-1

I didn't have a kick drum mic for the demo, so this time I told them I'd do the 11 songs for a kick drum mic (ATM-25) and beer/pizza. They happily agreed and I've got a new mic! Considering the amount of my time this will take, I might try to get more out of them like a bunch of blank CDRs or something. I just want a little compensation for my time but I'm also in it for the experience-- we have alot of fun recording and I'm learning a great deal.
 
The cheapest I record is free, but I always ask for a finished disc (insert, printed cd, etc) and a slurpee! :D
 
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