How do you make your acoustic guitar "shine"?

P

paw1

New member
Recently got a pair of Oktava Mk-012's (cardioid) to take care of my acoustic guitar recording needs. The problem is that the recorded guitar sounds pretty dull. I don't get the "shine" that I want (like the opening chord in "Walking After You" by Foo Fighters).

I have tried several different miking positions today, and ended up with something close to XY as the best result, with one mic pointing to the 10th fret, and the other pointing towards the end of the fretboard, from about a foot and a half away. The strings aren't new, but far from being tired. To get the "shine" I wanted, I had to boost the frequencies around 10 kHz by about 13 db (!) (I cut the low frequencies also).

Would anyone care to help out a novice?


Best regards,

-paw
 
The first thing that pops to mind would be to add a bunch of high shelf at 8k. As much as needed, don't be shy.

The other thing to consider is whether or not the guitar has any shine to capture. A cheap guitar with dead strings isn't going to sound like whatever high end acoustic with brand new strings that foo fighters used.
 
I don't feel very comfortable about adding 13 dB of EQ (although "if it sounds good to your ears, that's all that matters"), I'd rather try to get closer to the wanted sound through the microphones.

I feel like the guitar has more "shine" than I've managed to capture yet. The guitar has quite thick strings now, and maybe it'd be smart to change them with thinner strings.

BTW, the guitar is a Yamaha LL6.
 
Do you like the acoustic sound of the guitar? Maybe some different strings? What's your recording room like?
 
Your issues could be so many things. The guitar size (Dreadnaught, Grand Concert, Grand Auditorium, etc), guitar brand, string gauge, string brand. Your mic choice. The 012's are not my idea of a "bright" mic. One thing's for sure, if your guitar don't "shine", all the mics and EQs in the world won't make it so.
 
Here's the thing: The Octava's are dark sounding mics. No, they won't give you the super bright sound that other mics will, but the highs they do capture are really smooth. Since the high end is captured so smoothly, they take a lot of EQ very well.

If you use a bright sounding mic, you are stuck with the EQ curve the mic has, which may or may not be right for the situation. Hyped mics sometimes don't do well with a lot of EQ.

I almost always try to capture darker sounds and brighten them in the mix because I've found it easier to get a nice, smooth, open high end by doing that. It's much harder to calm down an overly bright or harsh signal than it is to brighten a dark one.
 
mjbphotos said:
Do you like the acoustic sound of the guitar? Maybe some different strings? What's your recording room like?
Click to expand...

I really like the sound of the guitar. Changed strings today for some strings that were recommended for what I wanted. Don't think they have more high end, but they are more middy and has less lows, which probably is a positive thing. My room is 4,25m x 4,75m x 2,05m, with a wooly kind of flooring and wood panels elsewhere. Not especially reverbant because of a lot of stuff.

Track Rat said:
Your issues could be so many things. The guitar size (Dreadnaught, Grand Concert, Grand Auditorium, etc), guitar brand, string gauge, string brand. Your mic choice. The 012's are not my idea of a "bright" mic. One thing's for sure, if your guitar don't "shine", all the mics and EQs in the world won't make it so.
Click to expand...

The guitar is a Yamaha LL6, which has dreadnaught body shape apparently.

Farview said:
Here's the thing: The Octava's are dark sounding mics. No, they won't give you the super bright sound that other mics will, but the highs they do capture are really smooth. Since the high end is captured so smoothly, they take a lot of EQ very well.

If you use a bright sounding mic, you are stuck with the EQ curve the mic has, which may or may not be right for the situation. Hyped mics sometimes don't do well with a lot of EQ.

I almost always try to capture darker sounds and brighten them in the mix because I've found it easier to get a nice, smooth, open high end by doing that. It's much harder to calm down an overly bright or harsh signal than it is to brighten a dark one.
Click to expand...

I see. I did get there with some pretty extreme EQing, which feels wrong to me, but honestly it didn't sound bad. How much gain (EQ) are you willing to apply?

c7sus said:
Carnauba wax FTW!
Click to expand...

How?


I'll probably give it another try later. The guy who sold me the strings recommended to try and go way back, like 2m from the microphones. He also said that an SM57 on the 12th fret could do the trick (toghether with the Oktavas).
 
paw1 said:
I see. I did get there with some pretty extreme EQing, which feels wrong to me, but honestly it didn't sound bad. How much gain (EQ) are you willing to apply?
Click to expand...
I expect to add at least 9db, but up to 18-20db wouldn't worry me.



paw1 said:
The guy who sold me the strings recommended to try and go way back, like 2m from the microphones. He also said that an SM57 on the 12th fret could do the trick (toghether with the Oktavas).
Click to expand...
If you move the mics that far back, you will not have much of a stereo image of the guitar (you will have an image of the space). It will be thinner sounding as you get farther from the guitar, but it will have more midrange, not 'shine'. A sm57 will not add shine either, it is really more concentrated in the midrange.
 
You could try thinner, brighter strings and a pick made of a hard material.
Might just bring out the transients more though.
 
A little update.

Changed strings and experimented some more, with better results.

First of all, the new strings sounded better and brighter through the microphones, just a little. What really made a big difference was where I chose to pick; closer to the bridge. For arpeggiated chords (which is what I'm recording), it just sounded much more defined, with better high end clarity. I still miss a bit of "shine", but a small amount of EQ will get me there. What I miss now is how to capture more of the body itself, although high end clarity is much more important to me.

Schwarzenyaeger said:
You could try thinner, brighter strings and a pick made of a hard material.
Might just bring out the transients more though.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. I'll keep it in mind till next acoustic recording session :)
 
What about some sort of exciter type effect? I did that on a 40 year old cheap cassette recently and it worked amazingly well for adding missing sparkle. The other thing.. since you're recording. Sometimes I play acoustic guitar with a quarter for a pick. It absolutely destroys the strings. Or perhaps I should say... it efficiently extracts all the tone the strings have to offer in a short amount of time. Even dead strings sizzle when you start beating on them with a heavy thick metal pick like a US quarter. (And I love the feel of it, it's heft helps my right hand with driving rhythm feel.) You should be able to get several songs out of em... but I don't recommend playing it all the time.
 
The Gibson J-45 is the acoustic guitar that has been recorded most often. Or at least that's what I've read. I would say that to get that "Shining" sound you're going to need a guitar that "Shines". You're going to need a high-end Gibson, Martin, Taylor, etc, to get the sound that you're after. Then you're going to have to record them correctly. Good luck! :guitar:
 
XploZiveToyz said:
The Gibson J-45 is the acoustic guitar that has been recorded most often. Or at least that's what I've read. I would say that to get that "Shining" sound you're going to need a guitar that "Shines". You're going to need a high-end Gibson, Martin, Taylor, etc, to get the sound that you're after. Then you're going to have to record them correctly. Good luck! :guitar:
Click to expand...

Read more, write less hearsay!

The guitar paw1 uses is a dreadnought, which is not a guitar I would necessarily choose for trebly, jangly stuff.
I would try smaller bodied guitars, like a parlour.
There are a lot of petite cheap-ish steel strings out there, that may lack a certain body for some applications, but that shine like crazy diamonds. (scnr)
No need to sell a kidney for a trebly acoustic.
 
b00n said:
Read more, write less hearsay!

The guitar paw1 uses is a dreadnought, which is not a guitar I would necessarily choose for trebly, jangly stuff.
I would try smaller bodied guitars, like a parlour.
There are a lot of petite cheap-ish steel strings out there, that may lack a certain body for some applications, but that shine like crazy diamonds. (scnr)
No need to sell a kidney for a trebly acoustic.
Click to expand...
What are mumbling about? Since you're new here it might be to your advantage to talk less and listen more.
 
For me the biggest part of it is definitely the instrument.
I've recorded a few guys with guitars that are just never going to 'shine'. They have that woody midrange quality, almost like a dobro, that you just can't get away from.
If you try to eq that to make it bright you're going to have a bad time.

The same can't be said about my pal's taylor or even my cheap yamaha, although there's a massive difference in body and warmth between the two.

Mic choice and position helps for sure, but you have to get the right instrument first.
 
paw1 said:
Recently got a pair of Oktava Mk-012's (cardioid) to take care of my acoustic guitar recording needs. The problem is that the recorded guitar sounds pretty dull. I don't get the "shine" that I want (like the opening chord in "Walking After You" by Foo Fighters).

I have tried several different miking positions today, and ended up with something close to XY as the best result, with one mic pointing to the 10th fret, and the other pointing towards the end of the fretboard, from about a foot and a half away. The strings aren't new, but far from being tired. To get the "shine" I wanted, I had to boost the frequencies around 10 kHz by about 13 db (!) (I cut the low frequencies also).

Would anyone care to help out a novice?


Best regards,

-paw
Click to expand...

If you want yout guitar to shine you need to record a shiny guitar.

No eq will make up for a mediocre sound.

Of course you can add some Brightness later with an eq if needed but spend sometime on the mic itself.

Move the mic and re record. When you find your sweet spot keep it. Then add eq if needed.

Also change some strings , cheers!
 
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