*that* hihat sound.

M

mansh

New member
Hi - really having trouble getting a hi-hat sound that I like. I'm moderately capable, but can't get it right. The easiest way for me to demonstrate what I'm after is via a song, so here's a really good example, Pink Steam by Sonic Youth

https://youtu.be/LFGF638WDAQ

It's that tsssssy sound on the hi hat, even though you can also hear the 'tip'. I'm not recording 'real' drums, so can't just half open or loosen the hat, but using NI Abbey Road Modern Drums (I also have all the Steinberg on-board vsts).

Is it a compression/reverb/gate/thing?

Any help?

Thanks
 
I haven't listened to the clip because I believe the answer is pretty obvious. If you want the hit hat to sound a certain way, you need that hi hat. Compression won't change the way your hi hat sounds in a way that's extreme enough to mold it into something it's not. I don't know that drum program, but Superior Drummer has hat samples that move from closed to open in small increments and with different intensities. I would say find another drum program that has the basic sounds you're happy with.

Just my opinion. good luck
 
Are you talking about the way the drummer is opening and closing the hat? That's not anything you can do with compression, that is a programming issue.

Doing it with samples, you would need samples of a closed hat, a slightly open hat, a more open hat and an open hat.

It seems like the drummer was opening the hat on the snare and closing it on the beat after the snare. The rest of the hits are progressively opening until the snare hits again.

If you have nothing but open and closed samples, you aren't going to be able to do this convincingly.
 
andrushkiwt said:
I believe the answer is pretty obvious. If you want the hit hat to sound a certain way, you need that hi hat.
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Lol. Yeah. There's nothing special about that hi hat sound. It's a real hi hat played by a real drummer. It's not even some advanced drum technique. That's just basic drumming. Score another point for real stuff.

Having said all that, just do what Farview said. You'll need several samples of varying hi hat openness.
 
What are you using to input/trigger your samples? MIDI keyboard controller? e-kit? Mouse + keyboard?

If you're using a MIDI controller, have your mod wheel or hihat foot pedal output the MIDI control signal CC4, which I think is a common thing to have control the hihat pedal position.

If you're using mouse + keyboard, open an automation for that MIDI track and manually draw in the CC4 values to open/close the hihat.
 
Greg_L said:
Lol. Yeah. There's nothing special about that hi hat sound. It's a real hi hat played by a real drummer. It's not even some advanced drum technique. That's just basic drumming. Score another point for real stuff.

Having said all that, just do what Farview said. You'll need several samples of varying hi hat openness.
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It's almost as if the hi-hat is a complex instrument capable of a wide variety of subtle sounds depending on how you play it.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
It's almost as if the hi-hat is a complex instrument capable of a wide variety of subtle sounds depending on how you play it.
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A hi-hat is a simple animal in it's natural state when played by another simple animal in it's natural state. It's only when one tries to use one unnaturally that they become difficult to deal with.
 
Greg_L said:
A hi-hat is a simple animal in it's natural state when played by another simple animal in it's natural state. It's only when one tries to use one unnaturally that they become difficult to deal with.
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Depends, really. I mean, if you're playing jazz, the hi-hat is an extremely complex instrument, played with a high level of fines and skill. If you're playing drums for a heavy metal band on the other hand, any old cymbals slapped together on the stand will do. Heck, you don't even need your hi-hat rod to be straight. You're style, Greg, you could probably duct-tape two pan lids together and get a good enough sound. ;) Just kidding. But the point is, in all actuality, the hi-hat can be a very versatile instrument, all dependent on who's playing it.
 
And whoa! I was just kinda letting the song play in the background, not paying much attention to it. I just got five and a half minutes through the song and there were lyrics all of sudden!!!? Where was the vox through the rest of the song? lol
 
Here's a picture

06drums06.jpg

I do hear that kind of a swish on the hat in that song. No idea how it got there, but I like it.

It thrills me how such a normal looking instrument can sound so amazing.
 
Resurrect said:
Depends, really. I mean, if you're playing jazz, the hi-hat is an extremely complex instrument, played with a high level of fines and skill. If you're playing drums for a heavy metal band on the other hand, any old cymbals slapped together on the stand will do. Heck, you don't even need your hi-hat rod to be straight. You're style, Greg, you could probably duct-tape two pan lids together and get a good enough sound. ;) Just kidding. But the point is, in all actuality, the hi-hat can be a very versatile instrument, all dependent on who's playing it.
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You completely missed the joke.
 
Isn't it strange that a hi hat played by a good drummer sounds completely different to one played by a computer :facepalm:

The songs you posted has many different variations of hi hat, the slightly open hi hat being hit on the 2nd and 4th with the snare, the open hi hat being swished around in the dynamic parts of the song, and the softer hit hats with the really nice tick.

If you want all this from a computer you need to study drum programming skills or look for some very good samples. Much easier to play it on a real hi hat.

Alan.
 
I use the Abbey Road pack a fair bit (it came with Maschine).
I generally use 3 to 4 hi-hat sounds to a loop
Closed
Closed-ish
Open-ish
Open-more-ish
It's important that none of these physically clash so set them on their own choke group - that way a shorter strike of a closed hat will kill the long tail of your open one (as it would with a real player).

I generally don't dig on open hats - instead I'll link the pad with my ride cymbal to my kick. The ride doesn't care what the hats are doing.

As far as compression etc - the Abbey Road kit (and 'most' other good sample packs) has already been processed by engineers much more talented than myself; if it doesn't sound right then IMO it's a case of poor sample selection on my part.

Something I do a lot of with my kick/snare is layering. I'll take a kick with a whole lot of body on one pad and link it to another pad with a clickier sounding kick - I'll add a sample with some nice deep thud to another pad and link that to the same group - so when I hit that first pad all three hit simultainiously. Then it's just a case of level setting in order to sculpt the sound I need.
If something ain't working I replace the sample for the part of the sound that's hinkey.

IME hats/cymbals don't respond as well to layering as drums unless you're going for an overtly quantised drum-machine sound on your beat.
 
witzendoz said:
Isn't it strange that a hi hat played by a good drummer sounds completely different to one played by a computer :facepalm:

The songs you posted has many different variations of hi hat, the slightly open hi hat being hit on the 2nd and 4th with the snare, the open hi hat being swished around in the dynamic parts of the song, and the softer hit hats with the really nice tick.

If you want all this from a computer you need to study drum programming skills or look for some very good samples. Much easier to play it on a real hi hat.

Alan.
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That's what I was saying about a human drummer and this being simple. Most drummers just do this stuff without thinking about it. Building tension with hats using the foot pedal is just a basic drumming 101 thing. It's amazing that something so simple in real life is so complicated by artificial means.
 
mansh said:
Hi - really having trouble getting a hi-hat sound that I like. I'm moderately capable, but can't get it right. The easiest way for me to demonstrate what I'm after is via a song, so here's a really good example, Pink Steam by Sonic Youth

https://youtu.be/LFGF638WDAQ

It's that tsssssy sound on the hi hat, even though you can also hear the 'tip'. I'm not recording 'real' drums, so can't just half open or loosen the hat, but using NI Abbey Road Modern Drums (I also have all the Steinberg on-board vsts).

Is it a compression/reverb/gate/thing?

Any help?

Thanks
Click to expand...

I think there might be a touch of stereo chorus/reverb, as I occasionally hear a bit of the hi hat come and go from the left and right channels. It's also possible the hi hat is only sometimes being played loud enough to make it to the overhead mics, which may explain the effect as well.

You definitely don't want to gate very much if you want that swooshy effect. Gating will cut the swoosh short, make the hits more concise. Same for adding too much compression. You want a soft ring out between each hit of the hi hat.

When doing digital drums (which is most of the time nowadays), I usually add some room/studio reverb to the final drum mix to unify things. I have also added custom reverb to the hi hat for a desired effect, like more presence in the stereo field. It's really just something you have to tinker with.
 
Farview said:
What about it are you trying to mimic? The way it dies so quickly makes me think it's a 10 or 12 inch china he is riding, not a hi hat.
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I'm trying to mimic the way it sound really special like not really metallic but very distant and constant. It add a crasy atmosphere to the music, like snow falling or something. I believe it might be because they put a lot of reverb on it?
 
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