Help with mic'ing/recording acoustic guitar

I go up there at least once a week to check out their new and used acoustics. One day I'll get lucky...

Great attitude! Any excuse is a good excuse to visit the music store. I liked your last example the best. Just a thought, have you considered recording outside? It seems like you are honing in on the range for your mic and pic noise. If you can get out into the open, it may give you some incite of what is actually happening inside your room using the same gear.
 
At 28", you're getting a ton of room in the track, that is not helping. I'm a hard strummer, never had a low resonance problem from it, so I have to assume a guitar problem for you.
I never liked the low priced Yamahas when I tried them. Have you tried the Epiphones, or any of the low priced Fenders (300, 140)?
 
Great attitude! Any excuse is a good excuse to visit the music store. I liked your last example the best. Just a thought, have you considered recording outside? It seems like you are honing in on the range for your mic and pic noise. If you can get out into the open, it may give you some incite of what is actually happening inside your room using the same gear.

Now keep in mind Mack, that last example, X-8 [echo ; echo ; echo..] was recorded on my DP-03SD through it's built-in omni-directional mic and exported to Reaper. So my AT2020 was not used. I could take the DP-03SD outside, but my area is loaded with ambient noises - not to mention the constant breezes rustling everything.

At 28", you're getting a ton of room in the track, that is not helping. I'm a hard strummer, never had a low resonance problem from it, so I have to assume a guitar problem for you.

I never liked the low priced Yamahas when I tried them. Have you tried the Epiphones, or any of the low priced Fenders (300, 140)?

Agree on the guitar problem. The store also has some 60 & 400 series Fenders - I can check those out with the Epiphones. I have, in the past, tried some of Fender's thin body acoustic-electrics.. unplugged, they sounded like harpsichords to me - way too bright. They sounded alright plugged in, but I'm not a fan of plugged-in acoustic sounds.
 
Now keep in mind Mack, that last example, X-8 [echo ; echo ; echo..] was recorded on my DP-03SD through it's built-in omni-directional mic and exported to Reaper. So my AT2020 was not used. I could take the DP-03SD outside, but my area is loaded with ambient noises - not to mention the constant breezes rustling everything.

I know you will need to do this under good outdoor conditions, its just that you seem to be a person who runs on trial and error, as well as I. Your dedication to your situation is impeccable. There are some parks open to the public that have outside power available. If you do a little diggin, you may find the perfect place. This exercise is just so you can reference between the great wide open, and the room you are in now.

I live close to Old Town Manassas. They have live music just about every weekend at the towns pavilion. Almost every artist who shows up with a mic and guitar, remarks how much better they sound then in their two room apartment. Under the right conditions, using a omni mic may be preferred. ;-)

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I know you will need to do this under good outdoor conditions, its just that you seem to be a person who runs on trial and error, as well as I. Your dedication to your situation is impeccable. There are some parks open to the public that have outside power available. If you do a little diggin, you may find the perfect place. This exercise is just so you can reference between the great wide open, and the room you are in now.

I live close to Old Town Manassas. They have live music just about every weekend at the towns pavilion. Almost every artist who shows up with a mic and guitar, remarks how much better they sound then in their two room apartment. Under the right conditions, using a omni mic may be preferred. ;-)

View attachment 100900

I do seem to have gotten slightly better results with an omni mic... a built-in at that. There are several outdoor venues in my area similar to your example. That would sure seem to be one answer to my 'room' problem. Thank you.
 
My room's condition aside, I think it's fairly clear that the acoustic guitar I'm using here is the source of most of my sound quality issues. I will begin auditioning new acoustics at the store and see what I can move up to. I may have to fork out a little more than I had budgeted ($300), but I need to get to that next level. I'm sure there's a lower-budget 'next level' I can swing fairly soon. I wonder if they'll let me use my DP-03SD in their room so I can audition playback sounds.. I'll ask. Never know, eh.

When I get a better acoustic I will start a new series of experiments.

I want to thank everyone here who has offered comments and feedback. I got exactly what I needed in that you identified major problems which need addressing before any further serious attempts can be made to get the sound(s) I need to begin my future song projects.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to experiment with my current guitar in this thread, trying every setup I can think of just to see what results I can achieve with a not-so-good guitar.
 
X- 9 will involve two twin mattresses placed upright and horizontal, meeting at one end in a ninety-degree angle. I will dangle the mic from the top edge right down the corner - guitar height. I will sit within the triangle's open side about 30-inches from the mic. The top will be open and the bottom will have the previously utilized area rug. This may lead into X - 10 using the same setup, only covering half of the top's opening with a heavy blanket.

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You need a mic stand! Even just the cheapest boom you can find will be so much better than dangling and balancing.
 
I do happen to have quite a stack of college math textbooks - a good 20" worth. They're finally going to pay off :D

In lieu of a stand or boom, perhaps an alternate.

vVlTjgY.jpg
 
Yeah, while you're checking out the guitars at the music store, just buy a boom stand. Really. It'll be the best $20 you spent this week!
 
X- 9 will involve two twin mattresses placed upright and horizontal, meeting at one end in a ninety-degree angle. I will dangle the mic from the top edge right down the corner - guitar height. I will sit within the triangle's open side about 30-inches from the mic. The top will be open and the bottom will have the previously utilized area rug. This may lead into X - 10 using the same setup, only covering half of the top's opening with a heavy blanket.

View attachment 100901

Late to the party. That diagram is basically how I have been recording my acoustic lately. Except, the mattresses are walls, the room is a large walk-in closet, and behind me are layers of comforters and blankets. Behind the mic is a reflection shield, above it is a pillow resting on the shield (to stop sounds from coming into the mic from above), and...that's about it. I point the mic at about the 14th fret. I sit when I play, and the mic is straight up, hand height.

I don't know much about recording live stuff, and these guys here are experts. I'm just sharing what I've done since you referenced me a couple times. I think my sounds could be much better, but I'm working on that. There is a bit of EQ on the guitar bus as well, and don't forget that you're hearing double tracked guitars, panned about 25% (hard pan doesn't seem right for acoustic). The EQ is removing low end resonances and muffled/boomy sounds. No LPF. A couple high end notches in the 2-7khz range, where the pick is making noise and there's a scratchy sound.
 
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Late to the party. That diagram is basically how I have been recording my acoustic lately. Except, the mattresses are walls, the room is a large walk-in closet, and behind me are layers of comforters and blankets. Behind the mic is a reflection shield, above it is a pillow resting on the shield (to stop sounds from coming into the mic from above), and...that's about it. I point the mic at about the 14th fret. I sit when I play, and the mic is straight up, hand height.

I don't know much about recording live stuff, and these guys here and experts. I'm just sharing what I've done since you referenced me a couple times. I think my sounds could be much better, but I'm working on that. There is a bit of EQ on the guitar bus as well, and don't forget that you're hearing double tracked guitars, panned about 25% (hard pan doesn't seem right for acoustic). The EQ is removing low end resonances and muffled/boomy sounds. No LPF. A couple high end notches in the 2-7khz range, where the pick is making noise and there's a scratchy sound.

First.. thanks for chiming in!

That's about where I'm at with the EQ tinkering - I generally have lots of strumming pick noise. I'm always slapping the edge of the soundhole and guard too, but those are easier to remove. And I agree on the pans - just enough to get some separation to fill out the sound.

Since you mentioned it, (for recording X-9) I'll add a pillow above my mic. In the following recording (X- 10), I was going to lay a heavy blanket over the corner of the mattresses above the mic to (hopefully) accomplish the same.

While I was guitar shopping this evening, I kept in mind the way your acoustic sounds. I tend to favor higher, crisper tones and had to restrain myself from playing the Yamahas too much.
 
While I was guitar shopping this evening, I kept in mind the way your acoustic sounds. I tend to favor higher, crisper tones and had to restrain myself from playing the Yamahas too much.

That's weird, in a good way I suppose. I never figured someone would have my "sound" in mind. Ha. I just threw some blankets around and set up a mic. It looks cheap and it is.

Are you sure you don't want to reference some popular artists who use acoustics? Though I don't like their music, Boyce Avenue has a great acoustic environment sound - everything from the guitars to the cajon. Really cool. And that's something I can do at home and....wait for it....not worry about fiddling with amp sims. Or mic'ing large cabinets. I can use shakers and acoustics, and even programmed drums will pass just fine for this application.

Anyway, there's def better things to aim for. I'd check out YouTube and listen to some good acoustic artists there. If you haven't heard Boyce Avenue, check out their sound. It's very good, in my opinion. There's even some vids by their engineer on how he mixed their music. Pretty cool.
 
In the following recording (X- 10), I was going to lay a heavy blanket over the corner of the mattresses above the mic to (hopefully) accomplish the same.

That's actually probably a better idea. Maybe these guys can weigh in on that, but I'd think having it further away than the pillow would be would be a better application. Wedging it between the tops of the mattresses sounds like a better call. Since I have plain ol walls there, I have nowhere else to put it, so the small pillow goes over the top of the shield. But, like I said, your idea is prob better.
 
I'm always slapping the edge of the soundhole and guard too, but those are easier to remove.

Work on your technique first, you'll save a lot of time later! Hold the pick so just a small amount of the tip is protruding from your fingertips.
 
Work on your technique first, you'll save a lot of time later! Hold the pick so just a small amount of the tip is protruding from your fingertips.

I'm practicing that technique - it helps quite a bit.

That's weird, in a good way I suppose. I never figured someone would have my "sound" in mind. Ha. I just threw some blankets around and set up a mic. It looks cheap and it is.

Are you sure you don't want to reference some popular artists who use acoustics? Though I don't like their music, Boyce Avenue has a great acoustic environment sound - everything from the guitars to the cajon. Really cool. And that's something I can do at home and....wait for it....not worry about fiddling with amp sims. Or mic'ing large cabinets. I can use shakers and acoustics, and even programmed drums will pass just fine for this application.

Anyway, there's def better things to aim for. I'd check out YouTube and listen to some good acoustic artists there. If you haven't heard Boyce Avenue, check out their sound. It's very good, in my opinion. There's even some vids by their engineer on how he mixed their music. Pretty cool.

I just listened to several Boyce Avenue tunes and, yeah.. very nice acoustic sound. I can get a much cleaner sound myself by changing up my style, but I like to do a lot of continuous up/down strumming. Plus I'm a bit heavy handed at times which all contribute to a muddy, unbalanced sound. If I had continued with my finger-picking lessons I wouldn't be in this mess :laughings: I'd compare my strumming technique to Motown's 'Wall of Sound'. Probably better suited to solid body electrics.

I am practicing mostly down-strokes with up-strokes for emphasis - relearning. This helps clean the sound up, but it's also throwing my rhythm off because I use the up and down strokes to keep time.

I also listened to a Boyce Avenue - Emily Zeck duo cover.. that girl has a nice voice.
 
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I did record several partial scratch takes for X - 9. I'm not attaching them because I want to get the whole song in.

I used the two mattresses and covered the top of their corner with a heavy bath towel to (hopefully) block some ceiling reflections - the mic dangled in the corner facing the guitar's soundhole some 28-inches away and level with it. Behind me was open to the room's bare block wall and floor... I could use another mattress to complete the triangle. My body was between that and the mic - the reflections possibly being muted somewhat as they go around me into the mattresses.

The result was a slightly less muddied sound from earlier (non-FX) versions. This is encouraging.

I will try to get X - 9 completed tomorrow and post it's attachment.
 
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