Help with mic'ing/recording acoustic guitar

What I hear is guitar body resonance down low - in the open E to open A frequency range. Not a good resonance, either (inexpensive guitar syndrome). I'm afraid you'll just need to keep experimenting with position of the mic to the guitar - I can't see any reason to be doing it on the floor, though. Use a boom mic stand, sit in a comfortable (non squeaky) chair. Adjust the mic a little less towards the sound hole than this last try. When you hear the guitar when you are playing in a room, you are not hearing the direct sound of the guitar, you are hearing the soundwaves bouncing off everything and back towards you - this is not what the mic hears, so of course it is going to sound different.
 
What I hear is guitar body resonance down low - in the open E to open A frequency range. Not a good resonance, either (inexpensive guitar syndrome).....

X-7

That's a fact. This next one, I moved the mic back up to a low table position just about even with the neck at the 12th fret angled toward the sound hole - 6 inches away. See if this sounds any better.

Please disregard the sloppy flat-picking, I just pulled this old ditty out to see how the single notes would sound with a little light strumming. This is closer to what I'd like to hear recorded.
 

Attachments

  • Acoustic Test Vol VII.mp3
    1.2 MB · Views: 6
Last edited:
What I hear is guitar body resonance down low - in the open E to open A frequency range. Not a good resonance, either (inexpensive guitar syndrome). I'm afraid you'll just need to keep experimenting with position of the mic to the guitar - I can't see any reason to be doing it on the floor, though. Use a boom mic stand, sit in a comfortable (non squeaky) chair. Adjust the mic a little less towards the sound hole than this last try. When you hear the guitar when you are playing in a room, you are not hearing the direct sound of the guitar, you are hearing the soundwaves bouncing off everything and back towards you - this is not what the mic hears, so of course it is going to sound different.
I'll go one further. With my own acoustic -which I struggle with a mic out front with placement anywhere near the body or sound hole the 'too big of body' resonances. (Full size Taki', and one of the reasons I understand make small body acoustics more forgiving)
Any way, my hearing it while playing has none of that 'imbalance.
And it's also the tone' I really like, and would like to capture. Got me thinking to put a mic up in the area of my left shoulder (in various spots). Shure enough staying away from the face works -in that regard. But then, it also looses on the top end directness of a front mic. :>)

I believe it's the very same thing as if you've ever placed a mic towards the front-side of a kick drum (near the foot). You get a fairly cool shot of 'all shell tone' and attack, very little low end content.
 
I'll go one further. With my own acoustic -which I struggle with a mic out front with placement anywhere near the body or sound hole the 'too big of body' resonances. (Full size Taki', and one of the reasons I understand make small body acoustics more forgiving)
Any way, my hearing it while playing has none of that 'imbalance. Got me thinking, put a mic up in the area of my left shoulder (in various spots). Shure enough staying away from the face works -in that regard. But then, it also looses on the top end directness of a front mic. :>)

I've taken to a downward 45degree angle approach with acoustic...
Take a traditional close spaced pair, move it up then back a foot or so, then angle them down to point at the guitar.

Worth a try, maybe. :)
 
I'll go one further. With my own acoustic -which I struggle with a mic out front with placement anywhere near the body or sound hole the 'too big of body' resonances. (Full size Taki', and one of the reasons I understand make small body acoustics more forgiving)
Any way, my hearing it while playing has none of that 'imbalance.
And it's also the tone' I really like, and would like to capture. Got me thinking to put a mic up in the area of my left shoulder (in various spots). Shure enough staying away from the face works -in that regard. But then, it also looses on the top end directness of a front mic. :>)

I believe it's the very same thing as if you've ever placed a mic towards the front-side of a kick drum (near the foot). You get a fairly cool shot of 'all shell tone' off the kick.

Because of the difficulties I'm experiencing in this series of experiments, I'm leaning toward a new Yamaha FGX800C acoustic-electric. I've had my eye on several new Yamahas for the past year and a half. This may be just the push I need. I even tried a couple of used Taylors when I was test driving the Classic '50s Strat last night. The Taylors didn't feel or sound right, and the low prices on them led me to believe they were lower end models. Prices were $300-$500 used. Of course, the $3000 Martins and Taylors were near perfect... of course..
 
I've heard mixed reviews about modern FG Yamahas and, like you, I don't really get anything from the mid-range Taylors.
I took a bit of a gamble on an ebay 70s FG180 after reading a bunch of biased hype.......I love it!
It's really full sounding and well balanced...

Prior to that I had an APX-5a which, by comparison, sounds like it's made of wet cardboard,
unless you'd like to buy it, in which case it sounds almost as good. ;)

All the same, I wouldn't recommend buying an old guitar without seeing it because a lot of those Yamahas need their necks reset or worse,
but if you get the opportunity to physically try an fg 160/180/200 in your area and the action's good with mileage in the saddle, I'd give it a go!
 
X-6 :

I sat on a Berber pile area rug (5x6), cross-legged, mic on my right knee. I placed a corner of a blanket on my knee to keep the mic from shifting. No deadening was used. The mic was at the 12th fret angled towards the sound hole. It was 6-inches away (I got it that close!), slighly below neck level and twisted upward a bit.

Using the track layout Small Full Meter, I recorded at -18 to -12 as best I could. New medium strings and a hard pick made it slightly awkward and my strumming is uneven. On playback, this sounds muddy to my ear, probably sounds good on your end. The .mp3 attachment sounds better in my headphones than the Reaper track. The high E and B medium strings don't ring out like I'm used to with lights and it was bugging me while I played.

This was recorded completely dry and was not normalized. All my previous attachments were normalized first. This is an .mp3 rendered from the original .wav in Reaper.

This is a song I wrote a little over 40 years ago - my first. I need to practice my strumming all over again with a harder pick. Not as much pick noise this time, but still there - a little.
Yep, the easy to get broad upper bass bumps'. Tried a HP filter up around 200-240, then bring the whole level up to compensate. Helps balance and focuses on the rest of the tone, but the 'puffing effect from landing on the low strings is still there.
I've found pick attitude (it's orientations -parallel or not to the strings, etc) and distance from the bridge (closer=brighter, less lows, farther=warmer, deeper) also makes a big difference in how clear the mids and highs 'speak. Which helps overall. (The hard pick will help in that regard too)
 
...

All the same, I wouldn't recommend buying an old guitar without seeing it because a lot of those Yamahas need their necks reset or worse,
but if you get the opportunity to physically try an fg 160/180/200 in your area and the action's good with mileage in the saddle, I'd give it a go!

My local store can get a used 200 in fair condition with signs of heavy use - $99.99 - - I'll pass on that one. Thanks for the tip!
 
Don't buy an acoustic unplayed/heard unless you have the easy (and free) ability to get your money back. I played a umch of those low priced Yammies a few years ago and didn't like the sound or feel of them.
A used Taylor in the $300-500 range would be 100 series, no electronics or even one of the smaller models (new Academy series, or the Big Baby or GS Mini). 100 series are alright for what they are.
Look at Epiphone Masterbilts or a Seagull (used for either) in that price range.

If your primary reason for getting a new acoustic is better sounding recordings, you'll do better to wait, keep saving money to ensure you get an all-solid wood guitar - they really do sound better.

Your latest #7 test - I can hear a ton of room in this one - you sure the mic was pointed the right way?
 
Yep, the easy to get broad upper bass bumps'. Tried a HP filter up around 200-240, then bring the whole level up to compensate. Helps balance and focuses on the rest of the tone, but the 'puffing effect from landing on the low strings is still there.
I've found pick attitude (it's orientations -parallel or not to the strings, etc) and distance from the bridge (closer=brighter, less lows, farther=warmer, deeper) also makes a big difference in how clear the mids and highs 'speak. Which helps overall. (The hard pick will help in that regard too)

My default setting is strumming pretty much right over the hole. Sometimes, on a nice guitar, I'll really be getting into it and strum a little at the neck and return to the hole. I'm no good at strumming closer to the bridge on an acoustic. I like flat-picking a note there now and then, but there's that point between the bridge and the center of the hole where it just changes drastically and I can never balance that out while strumming - - and doing that with a hard pick I'm not used to is doubly troubly.
 
Don't buy an acoustic unplayed/heard unless you have the easy (and free) ability to get your money back. I played a umch of those low priced Yammies a few years ago and didn't like the sound or feel of them.
A used Taylor in the $300-500 range would be 100 series, no electronics or even one of the smaller models (new Academy series, or the Big Baby or GS Mini). 100 series are alright for what they are.
Look at Epiphone Masterbilts or a Seagull (used for either) in that price range.

...


One of the Taylors was a 110. Tried a Seagull CW GT Q1L. Neither fit me. The Yamaha acoustic-electrics are cutaways, smaller, and do come off bright, acoustically. I haven't plugged one in yet - I'll try that in a couple of days.

While I was in the room, a customer was jamming a nice Martin acoustic-electric on Stairway to Heaven. One of the $2000+ models. He was good. It was good.
 
I've taken to a downward 45degree angle approach with acoustic...
Take a traditional close spaced pair, move it up then back a foot or so, then angle them down to point at the guitar.

Worth a try, maybe. :)
Thank you. When you picture 'typical spaced pair', might that be 12th fret' + right end of body for example?
(For my own purposes I've been trying to get it done with one mic for what that's worth. :>)
 
X-7

That's a fact. This next one, I moved the mic back up to a low table position just about even with the neck at the 12th fret angled toward the sound hole - 6 inches away. See if this sounds any better.

Please disregard the sloppy flat-picking, I just pulled this old ditty out to see how the single notes would sound with a little light strumming. This is closer to what I'd like to hear recorded.
Interesting, a whole diff tone (but effective!). Aggressive eq too.
Curious, what that same eq would do on track 6?
But then again it sounds like you're picking/playing a lot cleaner too on 7 maybe (?
 
Interesting, a whole diff tone (but effective!). Aggressive eq too.
Curious, what that same eq would do on track 6?
But then again it sounds like you're picking/playing a lot cleaner too on 7 maybe (?

My ears still want to hear brighter sounds, so I couldn't resist bumping them a little. I had a listen to andrushkiwt's SoundCloud acoustic. Sounded to me like he was using barre chords, which don't resonate as much - cleaner sound. I've been recording open chords and the E & A strings have been resonating like crazy, really contributing to my problem. The new medium strings have made this worse. So with X-7, I pulled out something comparable using barre chords and it helped, but there was still some booming. I need to get my open chords sounding cleaner like picked notes, or barre chords at least.

Recording dry with my setup is just too muffled sounding and not easily dealt with adding post FX. Next one, I'll record wet again with the same 12-band EQ cutting the mids back a little from the previous settings. I need to keep the small low cuts in there to tame the booming.

I'm having occasional thoughts that maybe this Tascam interface is clouding the input signal, but I shrug it off because I've never had any Tascam/Teac units behave in this manner. So I'm back to wondering about my AT2020... or... Reaper(?) itself. I think I'm going to record a little something putting this AT2020 through my DP-03SD and see how that sounds. I have a hunch it's going to sound much better - then I can export that to Reaper and then here for a listen.
 
Last edited:
Recording dry with my setup is just too muffled sounding and not easily dealt with adding post FX. Next one, I'll record wet again with the same 12-band EQ cutting the mids back a little from the previous settings. I need to keep the small low cuts in there to tame the booming. ..

During recording or after are pretty much the same result.
 
My ears still want to hear brighter sounds, so I couldn't resist bumping them a little. I had a listen to andrushkiwt's SoundCloud acoustic. Sounded to me like he was using barre chords, which don't resonate as much - cleaner sound. I've been recording open chords and the E & A strings have been resonating like crazy, really contributing to my problem. The new medium strings have made this worse. So with X-7, I pulled out something comparable using barre chords and it helped, but there was still some booming. I need to get my open chords sounding cleaner like picked notes, or barre chords at least.

Recording dry with my setup is just too muffled sounding and not easily dealt with adding post FX. Next one, I'll record wet again with the same 12-band EQ cutting the mids back a little from the previous settings. I need to keep the small low cuts in there to tame the booming.

I'm having occasional thoughts that maybe this Tascam interface is clouding the input signal, but I shrug it off because I've never had any Tascam/Teac units behave in this manner. So I'm back to wondering about my AT2020... or... Reaper(?) itself. I think I'm going to record a little something putting this AT2020 through my DP-03SD and see how that sounds. I have a hunch it's going to sound much better - then I can export that to Reaper and then here for a listen.


I hate to tell you this, but I think the guitar is the problem. As is often said here, track well, and you need to do much less 'bandaid' work during mixing.
 
I hate to tell you this, but I think the guitar is the problem. As is often said here, track well, and you need to do much less 'bandaid' work during mixing.

I'm in agreement. I was attempting to get the best sound I could with this instrument. Unlike many other acoustic recordings I've heard here, my style involves constant up-and-down strumming which seems to cause lots of overlap in frequencies. Not sure that's a problem. I gave it another go though..

X-8 (just random chords strung together)

I used my DP-03SD and recorded dry using Internal Mic B at a distance of 28-inches from the 12th fret - this helped a bit with the pick noise. I went back to using a thin pick to brighten up the E and A strings. The signal level is difficult to determine on the DP-03SD due to no numbered metering. There's the red light at the gain pot and the (un-numbered) bars in the display for track and master. I ran the gain up to red light and backed it off 1/4 turn - the meters were reading about 3/4 with occasional peaks.

I then exported that track to Reaper and rendered it to the .mp3 below. No FX.

I was sitting on an ottoman on a 5x6 area rug. The room is still reflective.

I'm contemplating replacing the A and low E medium strings I just put on with the lights I took off - that's gotta make a noticeable difference - some, anyway.
 

Attachments

  • X-8 Random Chords.mp3
    714.3 KB · Views: 5
Last edited:
I hate to tell you this, but I think the guitar is the problem....

I've been trying out a lot of new acoustics in the room at my local store - mostly Yamahas and, of those, mostly acoustic-electric in the $300 range. Within this price range, other brands have a much duller sound as bad or worse than what I've been hearing in my recordings here - and that's unplugged. There were a couple that sounded good but the action was terrible - for me. I'll keep looking. I go up there at least once a week to check out their new and used acoustics. One day I'll get lucky...
 
Back
Top