Help with mic'ing/recording acoustic guitar

Just listened to your latest clip. Wow, there's so much room in that sound. I also think you're way too far away from the mic. I mean, it's just my opinion, but I'd get closer to the mic, maybe 12", and not dangle it from the ceiling, but have it on a stand at height with your hands. I use my walk-in closet simply because it deadens the sound. Unless I'm in a room created for recording live sound, I just want it nice and dry so I can add reverb to it in the mix. The room you're recording in is not sounding so good for recording guitar. Get out of that room before you buy a new guitar.

Think about this. You said you're in a big room, hanging the mic from the ceiling, 28" away from you - and that's exactly what it sounds like. I am in a medium sized closet, mic up close, but it doesn't sound like that (to me anyway). You're getting a particular sound, but I don't know if that's the sound you want. I think dry is best. Get the room noise out. Smaller room, mic as close as can get without getting too spikey or boomy, and capture a dry, clean, even sound.
 
Smaller room, mic as close as can get without getting too spikey or boomy, and capture a dry, clean, even sound.
I haven't actually listened, but I feel like a bigger room is always better because it's easier to treat. The smaller the room is, the more you have to worry about that "boxiness" and "phasiness" from fast first reflections. You can kill those, but it takes a lot more work than if the just aren't so short to begin with.

Like, I think the idea of the mattresses (or whatever) in a big room will be easier to pull of than trying to kill a closet. With a directional mic, though, you might do better with the mattresses behind the source (you) and the mic pointing away from the room and at the absorbent material.

And yes, mic distance will make a big difference. In a big, dead room (or a great sounding room where you don't mind using the ambience) you often will get a better picture of the guitar itself from a couple feet away, but if you're fighting reflections, closer is usually better, and you sometimes have to compromise.
 
I haven't actually listened, but I feel like a bigger room is always better because it's easier to treat. The smaller the room is, the more you have to worry about that "boxiness" and "phasiness" from fast first reflections. You can kill those, but it takes a lot more work than if the just aren't so short to begin with.

Like, I think the idea of the mattresses (or whatever) in a big room will be easier to pull of than trying to kill a closet. With a directional mic, though, you might do better with the mattresses behind the source (you) and the mic pointing away from the room and at the absorbent material.

And yes, mic distance will make a big difference. In a big, dead room (or a great sounding room where you don't mind using the ambience) you often will get a better picture of the guitar itself from a couple feet away, but if you're fighting reflections, closer is usually better, and you sometimes have to compromise.

I'm just saying, he seemed like he wanted something close to the sound I got on a particular song but his environment is different, and he's combining things from one technique with another, when maybe starting over with a smaller room would be better, depending on what he wants. If he's going big, then sure, treat that big room and get that mic further away. But if he wants close and personal, then get in a smaller room and deaden it, point mic at absorbent material behind him, move mic in, and see how that sounds for him. I guess he needs to decide if he wants big and roomy or close and personal. Sorry if I missed that answer earlier. Jumped in late, plus, like I said, these guys know much more about studio treatment, particularly Ash.
 
Just listened to your latest clip. Wow, there's so much room in that sound. I also think you're way too far away from the mic. I mean, it's just my opinion, but I'd get closer to the mic, maybe 12", and not dangle it from the ceiling, but have it on a stand at height with your hands. I use my walk-in closet simply because it deadens the sound. Unless I'm in a room created for recording live sound, I just want it nice and dry so I can add reverb to it in the mix. The room you're recording in is not sounding so good for recording guitar. Get out of that room before you buy a new guitar.

Think about this. You said you're in a big room, hanging the mic from the ceiling, 28" away from you - and that's exactly what it sounds like. I am in a medium sized closet, mic up close, but it doesn't sound like that (to me anyway). You're getting a particular sound, but I don't know if that's the sound you want. I think dry is best. Get the room noise out. Smaller room, mic as close as can get without getting too spikey or boomy, and capture a dry, clean, even sound.

He said he used an omni mic on his recorder(?) on that one, with nothing to kill the reflections - that explains the room sound.
 
Yes. The last .mp3 used my DP-03SD and one of it's built-in omni mics - then exported to Reaper for rendering. I didn't try to block any reflections on that one.
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I'm afraid I'm stuck with the one room I'm in (efficiancy apt), unless... maybe I can drag these matresses into my bathroom. No.. seriously! That's why I'm plodding along as I am.

I would like that clean, dry, "close and personal" sound, and I can get very close to it with picked or plucked notes and some quick downward strums on deadened strings, but not with up/down strumming. Especially as I favor the open chords.. that brings on many more reflections and boominess. I'm trying to zero in on those.

As for the sound I'm after.. I'm trying to get the sound I hear on playback in my headphones to sound as close as possible to the sound in my ears while I'm playing. So far, it's a lot muddier when recorded dry. I guess that's like the first time you hear your own voice on an inexpensive tape recorder and say "that's me..!?". What I hear in my ears while playing is not what's projecting directly from the soundhole. I think my mic is accurately reflecting this. It was suggested earlier that an alternate mic placement would be near my ear, angled toward the guitar - roomy as that might be, it may produce something close to what I'm after.

I appreciate everyone's comments and attention. With what I have to work with, this may fall into the "trying to make a silk purse out of sow's ears" category.
 
The problem is you are using makeshift ways to tame the reflections. Buying/building a couple of bass traps (4"x2'x4' rockwool) will make a huge difference - use them as portable gobos in front of you (behind the mic) the way you've been using mattresses. I set up with the 2 traps in front of me, in a V, the mic is about 12" out from the V. I usually have the guitar 8-9" from the front of the mic. Floor is carpetted.
Examples:
(multiple guitar parts) Sandcastles | Mike Birch
(2 strummed guitar parts - different guitars, both dreads) You Can't Take It With You | Mike Birch
 
The problem is you are using makeshift ways to tame the reflections. Buying/building a couple of bass traps (4"x2'x4' rockwool) will make a huge difference - use them as portable gobos in front of you (behind the mic) the way you've been using mattresses. I set up with the 2 traps in front of me, in a V, the mic is about 12" out from the V. I usually have the guitar 8-9" from the front of the mic. Floor is carpetted.
Examples:
(multiple guitar parts) Sandcastles | Mike Birch
(2 strummed guitar parts - different guitars, both dreads) You Can't Take It With You | Mike Birch

Thank you! I found a local Lowes that carries rock wool in 59.7 sq. ft. pkgs (15.25" x 47" x 3"). Only $60 - not to hard a hit.

I did listen to both songs and I liked the sound of your acoustic, especially on "You Can't Take It With You" because there seemed to be more steady strumming with a nice, smooth sound. "Sandcastles" reminded me right off of YES' Close To The Edge album. Now are you using a pick? What type?
 
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Thank you! I found a local Lowes that carries rock wool in 59.7 sq. ft. pkgs (15.25" x 47" x 3"). Only $60 - not to hard a hit.

I did listen to both songs and I liked the sound of your acoustic, especially on "You Can't Take It With You" because there seemed to be more steady strumming with a nice, smooth sound. "Sandcastles" reminded me right off of YES' Close To The Edge album. Now are you using a pick? What type?

That is the less-dense Roxul Safe & Sound - double it up to 6" for traps. Take a look at this site for the specs of the various density products: Acoustic Panels by ATS Acoustics

I use a Fender Heavy pick. On one track of Sandcastles and 1 track of YCTIWY is my Taylor 310ce with medium Martin Lifespan strings. 2nd track on Sand is my 12 string with light strings, 2nd track on YCTIWY is my old Epiphone with extra light (10s) Lifespan strings.
 
That is the less-dense Roxul Safe & Sound - double it up to 6" for traps. Take a look at this site for the specs of the various density products: Acoustic Panels by ATS Acoustics

I use a Fender Heavy pick. On one track of Sandcastles and 1 track of YCTIWY is my Taylor 310ce with medium Martin Lifespan strings. 2nd track on Sand is my 12 string with light strings, 2nd track on YCTIWY is my old Epiphone with extra light (10s) Lifespan strings.

Thank you. I was using light strings, which drew comments here of too bright a sound, then I just put these Martin Mediums on and those high E & B strings are nearly inaudible. I need to get in the middle of those extremes.

Those flexible acoustic blankets look nice. I could rig up a PVC folding frame (suggested in an earlier post) to drape them over.
 
I've been watching videos of the guitars that interest me. They all sound "perfect", of course. Nearly all of these were made using a very expensive directional mic at the 12th(?) fret. And... 99.9% of the playing was finger-picking. That's how they're marketed. I'm still looking for one of these videos with someone strumming the hell out of the guitar into a cardioid.
 
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I'm still looking for one of these videos with someone strumming the hell out of the guitar into a cardioid.

Try this. His 6 min 20 sec vid is very good advice and I think it might meet your criteria. His video after this one is using two mics and one is my fav. Shure SM57. $99.00.


 
Try this. His 6 min 20 sec vid is very good advice and I think it might meet your criteria. His video after this one is using two mics and one is my fav. Shure SM57. $99.00.

Thanks, Mack. There is a problem with the video: Everything sounds good until he begins strumming, then it sounds like an added delayed guitar track, which stops when the guitar does.

I also notice he's describing mic placement at the hole angled toward the 12th fret - opposite of what I've read (at the 12th angled toward hole). But.. whatever works. Right?
 
Thanks, Mack. There is a problem with the video: Everything sounds good until he begins strumming, then it sounds like an added delayed guitar track, which stops when the guitar does.

Not sure if you are talking about playback lag or fx. Either way, I did not see or hear either. Maybe just my clogged ears.

I also notice he's describing mic placement at the hole angled toward the 12th fret - opposite of what I've read (at the 12th angled toward hole). But.. whatever works. Right?

That is correct. Very seldom is it "Just one way" when it comes to mic'ing. It all depends on what sound you want. More highs or more lows. His method only works with certain polar patterns. I thought your mic and his had the same pattern.
 
Thanks, Mack. There is a problem with the video: Everything sounds good until he begins strumming, then it sounds like an added delayed guitar track, which stops when the guitar does.

I also notice he's describing mic placement at the hole angled toward the 12th fret - opposite of what I've read (at the 12th angled toward hole). But.. whatever works. Right?
I think he has 2 audio tracks there - the one the camera picked up, plus the one he's using the mic for, and he's adding that to the video without muting the camera's audio track, it seems to be delayed just a little - like he didn't line them up.
As to mic position - whatever works ....
 
...

That is correct. Very seldom is it "Just one way" when it comes to mic'ing. It all depends on what sound you want. More highs or more lows. His method only works with certain polar patterns. I thought your mic and his had the same pattern.

Yes. I've got the same pattern mic. I'm going to try it his way.

I think he has 2 audio tracks there - the one the camera picked up, plus the one he's using the mic for, and he's adding that to the video without muting the camera's audio track, it seems to be delayed just a little - like he didn't line them up.
As to mic position - whatever works ....

Thanks for verifying that. I was beginning to think it was me.
 
I'm still playing around with mic placement and sound dampening, but I'm going to wait until I get another guitar before I post another take. May be a couple of weeks. After that, I'll work on getting some rock wool for bass traps. One step at a time..
 
I'm still playing around with mic placement and sound dampening, but I'm going to wait until I get another guitar before I post another take. May be a couple of weeks. After that, I'll work on getting some rock wool for bass traps. One step at a time..

The bass traps may not do what you need them to do. This post is well worth reading, as you are the only one who really knows your environment. It was written by John Brandt. John is known world wide for his work in studio design concerning sound waves/rays and treatments. He's a member here and he wrote a great post for this community. He also has some great videos for treating small rooms. Have a great weekend! p.s. What do you call a guitar player knocking at your door?
 
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