Help me to record my violin

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fiddleathome

New member
Hi,

I play violin, I'm still a beginner and not that great but I'm having a lot of fun. I currently have a 3 violins (my old one, a new one, and one lent to me by a friend) and I have been trying to record them to compare and hear the differences. When playing i can hear many differences, all 3 sound good but each one has its own sound. When I record them, the differences are much more subtle. So I think maybe it's my room which is poor or my technique or my equipment. I'm recording with an AT2020 connected to a fast track ultra. My room is very tiny, about 3mx3m (about 9m2), not counting the furniture. The ceiling is very low, about 2.1m. I know this is very limiting. On the other side of the curtain there is an equal size room but with a ceiling about 4.5m, which could help I don't know because we don't keep it heated in winter.

DSC_2145 (Medium).jpg

Today I recorded with my AT2020 and my telephone (Nexus 5) so I could compare. I was really surprised that the quality was similar. The Nexus recording had more noise, that's understandable because I had the gain up, but still, I was thinking the AT2020 should sound much better. I had previously done a similar comparison with my Nexus 5 and a friend's Zoom H4n and saw the same result.

Last week I ordered a Sony PCM-M10, but now I'm thinking if my Nexus 5 is almost as good as the AT2020, do I really need the Sony? It might not be too late to cancel it. Maybe my phone would be good enough when I need portability (weekly lessons, playing with friends, etc.). This is all just for fun, I'm not trying to make a CD or anything.

I attached a simple recording from the AT2020 & Nexus 5. I'd love to get some feedback comments about the room, the recordings (mic 1 is the AT2020), or the AT2020 microphone, let me know.

Thanks
 

Attachments

  • 2015-01-03 violin comparison compagnon mic 2.mp3
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  • 2015-01-03 violin comparison compagnon mic 1.mp3
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The AT2020 and fast track interface will give you the same or better quality as the PCM-thingy. Cancel your order unless you see other uses for it. (Remote recording at rehearsal, etc)

Your room is probably causing your problems. From the photo, I see no acoustic treatment at all. Without it, you will get a boxy recording. Don't expect your curtains to help with anything. Can you record in a larger room? If not, then you need to learn about acoustic treatment. It's not expensive if you can DIY it.

I plan to record my daughter playing violin soon. I'll do it in my little studio (3mx3m) that is acoustically treated. If it doesn't sound good, I'll record her in my living room. I'll start with the Studio Projects C1 and try different mics, one being the Shure KSM-137. I'll place the mic stand in front and over her and position the mic about a foot above the instrument. Tell her not to move around.
 
Chili said:
The AT2020 and fast track interface will give you the same or better quality as the PCM-thingy. Cancel your order unless you see other uses for it. (Remote recording at rehearsal, etc)

Your room is probably causing your problems. From the photo, I see no acoustic treatment at all. Without it, you will get a boxy recording. Don't expect your curtains to help with anything. Can you record in a larger room? If not, then you need to learn about acoustic treatment. It's not expensive if you can DIY it.

I plan to record my daughter playing violin soon. I'll do it in my little studio (3mx3m) that is acoustically treated. If it doesn't sound good, I'll record her in my living room. I'll start with the Studio Projects C1 and try different mics, one being the Shure KSM-137. I'll place the mic stand in front and over her and position the mic about a foot above the instrument. Tell her not to move around.
Click to expand...

Hi, thanks for the feedback. I ordered the PCM-M10 because often when playing I want to do a quick recording so I can listen to it and analyze my mistakes. So these are temporary recordings. And I was hoping to get something a bit better than my telephone. Now I'm not sure it'll be that much better. I also record my weekly lessons on my phone, those are temporary too because I erase the old one each week. And finally I would like to record takes when playing with friends. And finally recitals. For recording myself I prefer the PC with Reaper.

I almost got the zoom h5 but I felt it'd be too big and bulky, and attention-getting, and for what I'll do with it I wasn't sure the Zoom would be much better than the Sony.

I can try recording in the living room but I have to do it when the kids are not around and I'd have to bring the equipment into the living room. I will give it a try.
 
I can hear the noise from the Nexus, but surprisingly, I liked the sound of it better.

I'm not sure why you are ordering the Sony. That's a portable recorder, which no doubt would be a handy thing to have, but is not essential for recording your violin.

The room sound wasn't intrusive, and seemed fairly neutral to me (despite its small size).

The recordings were very dry, and, in my view, dry violin doesn't sound all that appealing. The sound of an instrument is a combination of the instrument and the space in which it is being played, and that space needs to complement the instrument. If the space doesn't do this, then you need to create a sense of space using reverb.

I've posted this sample before. The violin was recorded using an AT853, which is actually normally an ensemble mike (used normally for choirs and so on). But it really captures the detail of the violin sound really well.

https://app.box.com/shared/two degrees sample
 
Gecko

How did you position your mic?

I recently recorded a violin (arguably a "fiddle" since it was being used on country tracks). While I normally like to record an acoustic instrument from the front allowing 1-2 feet for the sound to develop - I had the best result mic'ing the violin from maybe a foot in front of the musician but about a foot above his ear - trying to record the sound closer to what he actually heard - vs. too much of a room sound.

I do have a fairly decent sound room, small but with treatment - but it's certainly not an ideal room so I try to "close mic" more than capture too much room.

Perhaps if I was recording more of a classical track I would want to capture more room - but close mic'ing seemed to work well for a "country sound" (a little more "bright" than a "warmer" classical tone.

In any case, I find violin to be a somewhat challenging instrument to mic.
 
Hi everyone, thanks for the replies so far. I tried to cancel my order for the sony PCM M-10 but it was too late, it was in the process of shipping and shipped out the next day. I've been experimenting with it and I like it, although the difference from my Nexus is not huge. For quick portable captures, I think my phone would suffice. If it was something that I wanted to do serious recording, I'm not sure I'd use the Sony.

in my order was also a set of Behringer C-2 so that I can do some stereo recording. however in my room I do think it's rather dry and so there is not much stereo effect with the Sony or the C2. In fact I think the Sony sounded slightly better, I am guessing that's because the omni mics picked up slightly more room sound. I agree with others that a violin mic does need a bit of room sound in it to sound full. I think close mic'ing violins gives a harsh sound. I've done that in the past to compare violins and was frustrated because the recordings sounded very similar, kind of like my nexus sounded similar to my AT2020.

so to make it more interesting, I took the Sony & violin to my living room, which is much bigger and has very high ceiling (about 5m). I thought the Sony did very well here. however this raised a limitation of the sony - the lack of XLR inputs! I'd like to try my AT2020 and C-2 in the living room but that requires bringing my laptop and fastrack ultra USB audio box, which is doable but slightly less so if I were going some place else. I plan to do that soon so I can compare.

I'm now thinking maybe a Zoom H5 would be better. It has directional microphones, that might give a better stereo separation (the sony sounds very mono to me). And the H5 would allow me to more easily record in the living room without bringing the laptop & USB audio. I can exchange the Sony for the H5 but my only reservation is that I think the violin sounds good with the Sony. However I think when I record concerts or recitals, the sony is going to pick up a lot of room noise (as in audience members) and that a more directional mic like on the H5 would be better. I will be performing with a large ensemble in March and my daughter will play a duet. so I'd like to get a portable recorder solution figured out. I'm curious if people recommend the Zoom H5 or the Sony PCM-M10? I think the Sony is more for ambiance recording than it is for musical performances, but I'm not sure.

Thanks
 
I've been testing the Behringer C2 and Sony PCM-M10. I think the violin sounds much much better on the sony than the C2. I think the omni mics give the violin a fuller sound. I plan to order some omni XLR mics so I can record in AB pair.
 
Xdrummer said:
How did you position your mic?
Click to expand...

It was positioned about head height, pointing towards the bridge from about 2' away.

I have a fairly neutral room, so while it doesn't totally deaden the fiddle, it doesn't give a huge amount of support either.

For recording bluegrass, the room by itself works fine. For the stuff I mostly do, which is more ambient, I add a fair bit of reverb.
 
fiddleathome said:
I've been testing the Behringer C2 and Sony PCM-M10. I think the violin sounds much much better on the sony than the C2. I think the omni mics give the violin a fuller sound. I plan to order some omni XLR mics so I can record in AB pair.
Click to expand...

The Behringer C2 is a very under-rated mike. I expect the Sony will sound better, but I have quite a few C2s that I use live and in the studio instead of sm57s.
 
With all the limitations of room design, space and so forth, the one thing you can really experiment with is mic positioning. You've received some good suggestions about positioning the mic higher. Here's another one that I've used. Position the AT2020 upside down and pointed slightly "away" from the plane of your violin belly. Because it is a side address mic, you want the plane of the mic capsule to be more or less parallel with the top of the violin when played. It will capture better when positioned from above instead of in front.

You may have to experiment a lot with positioning, but keep at it. You should be able to pull a lot more out of the sound by aligning the mic with the plane of the violin that is producing most of the tone - the belly itself. Don't place it in the path of the f-holes, as they act as air vents and can complicate things. Focus instead on the belly of the instrument.
 
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