Guitar and vocals

davecg321

New member
So I've been trying out the following technique for recording guitar and vocals at the same time.

https://youtu.be/3WrMhr2nUJI

He states to use a small diaphragm on the guitar.

I'm using an nt1a on vocals.


I've been trying out this on the guitar

RØDE Microphones - M3

but I get way to much vocal bleed.

Would a small diaphragm be better? I was under the assumption that the m3 was a small diaphragm but this doesn't appear to be the case.

D
 
How close are you putting the m3? I mic the 12th fret a few inches from the strings. It would seem that would eliminate enough of the vocals.
 
So I've been trying out the following technique for recording guitar and vocals at the same time.

https://youtu.be/3WrMhr2nUJI

He states to use a small diaphragm on the guitar.

I'm using an nt1a on vocals.


I've been trying out this on the guitar

RØDE Microphones - M3

but I get way to much vocal bleed.


Would a small diaphragm be better? I was under the assumption that the m3 was a small diaphragm but this doesn't appear to be the case.
D
Per the M3's spec sheet, you're likely already getting a cardioid's typical 6-8 dB rejection at 90 degrees for that pattern.
Any bigger factors will be the distances -from the guitar, and from the voice, and how loud each of those are. Both- very important.
Consider how some will have the guitar slung lower -standing with a strap, would be way easier to get some isolation vs someone sitting hunched over the guitar.

If you're considering mics.. the fig-8 pattern! Now you can angle/place a very deep null pointed at the voice (or vise versa.
Two Cad M-179's? :>)
CAD Audio M179 | RecordingHacks.com
 
Per the M3's spec sheet, you're likely already getting a cardioid's typical 6-8 dB rejection at 90 degrees for that pattern.
Any bigger factors will be the distances -from the guitar, and from the voice, and how loud each of those are. Both- very important.
Consider how some will have the guitar slung lower -standing with a strap, would be way easier to get some isolation vs someone sitting hunched over the guitar.

If you're considering mics.. the fig-8 pattern! Now you can angle/place a very deep null pointed at the voice (or vise versa.
Two Cad M-179's? :>)
CAD Audio M179 | RecordingHacks.com

I never thought of the standing whilst recording, I'm normally inclined to sit (even though I always stand live)

So you're saying I should get as much rejection as I would if I were using a large condenser?

Which has more rejection, small or large diaphragms

?
 
Neither - rejection is a result of polar pattern changes - so while one mic might have a slightly different polar pattern than another - small or large diaphragm isn't the decider.
 
I never thought of the standing whilst recording, I'm normally inclined to sit (even though I always stand live)

So you're saying I should get as much rejection as I would if I were using a large condenser?

Which has more rejection, small or large diaphragms

?

Why are you not tracking the guitars and vocals separately, if this is not for live performance? You're missing the entire benefit of multitracking at home.
 
Why are you not tracking the guitars and vocals separately, if this is not for live performance? You're missing the entire benefit of multitracking at home.

Some people like to do this as they feel it's a better feel and more natural performance. If the artist want to do it that way I have to make it work. I think the OP is feeling the same. 2 x figure 8 mics is the way to go always. There however is one other option, use 1 mic out front and record the guitar and vocals with the one mic, do some sound checks and move the mic around until the balance is right and the tone is right, this can give surprising results and sounds very natural.

Cheers
Alan.
 
Some people like to do this as they feel it's a better feel and more natural performance. If the artist want to do it that way I have to make it work. I think the OP is feeling the same. 2 x figure 8 mics is the way to go always. There however is one other option, use 1 mic out front and record the guitar and vocals with the one mic, do some sound checks and move the mic around until the balance is right and the tone is right, this can give surprising results and sounds very natural.

Cheers
Alan.


yes, for some recordings I prefer to sing and play at the same time.


if I use two figure of 8 mics do I have to engage the figure of pickup pattern????
 
Most directions for setting up this technique state to use two figure of 8 mics.

What I mean is for illustration actually press and engage the Figure 8 pattern on each mic, or, do the instructions for this technique mean I should use figure of 8 capable mics but not engage the setting itself....

?
 
Most directions for setting up this technique state to use two figure of 8 mics.

What I mean is for illustration actually press and engage the Figure 8 pattern on each mic, or, do the instructions for this technique mean I should use figure of 8 capable mics but not engage the setting itself....

?
Not Shure what ..or where maybe you're going astray :)
There's the multi-pattern mics -typically they switch from omni cardioid and fig8. They would have to be set -'engaged'? to the pattern. (Or a CAD m178 -a real dandy, continuously variable through the whole range.
Then there's mics fig-8 only, nothing to set, like ribbons?
Is that what you meant? In either case they still need to be positioned ('aimed) for the task.
 
I record myself on acoustic separately (that is, first guitar, then the vocals), but everyone else I've done is adamant about tracking voice and guitar together. I've used two mics, large condensers, both switched to figure-of-8 pattern, pointed to maximise the rejection of voice or guitar spill. I've had good results with that technique. I'll have to try the setup that Bob Clearmountain shows in the video above--it looks like a good idea, and he would know, wouldn't he?
 
I would have liked to have heard the results of that. In either case- double fig 8 or cardioids, it's a juggle between placement for tone, vs for isolation. Mostly here wondering about the guitar mic at the sound hole for example.

Then again maybe the guy was doing finger picking (as opposed to full big cording?) where it might be fine.
 
The dynamics of the performance will be the biggest thing you need to worry about.

If you have a quiet guitar and a really loud voice, you will have problems no matter what you do with the mics. Loud guitar and quiet voice will be a problem as well.

As long as the vocals and guitar blend as its performed, the bleed will not be a problem.

Also, choosing mics that will not need excessive eq will help too.
 
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