Going crazy, please help :)

G

Gillette

New member
Hi to all, hope this is the right place to ask..

Ok here’s the situation.

At the beginning, before 5 years or so, all I wanted is to record some guitar and voice over some drums and bass, and hopefully create some songs.

Bought me some decent PC and while I was putting all parts together I knew that (if I wanted some decent sound) I should have some decent sound card. So I did some research and somewhere I’ve found that M-Audio ProKeys Sono 61 would be all I need. It is a midi keyboard, but it has sound card built in (which supposed to be a better choise than integrated sound card in motherboard of PC)

prokeysSono61-1.png


So I did, and at first it was fun learning DAWs, VSTs etc, but right from the beginning I had that noise with the electric guitar plugged in. First type of noise is when I use some clean amp simulations (Amplitube) and that noise is heard when I play. If I want to eliminate it, I have to engage noise gate, but that kills the sustain.

The other type of noise has nothing to do with guitar, but comes from M-Audio itself, especialy when I turn Direct Monitor knob over the half or so. The same thing is with the Gain knob.

What confuses me, is that Gain knob after half starts to blink green (which should be good thing right?, because when it goes red I know it is „clipping“ thing)
Now, i know that „noise issue“ often has the hole „electricity power in the house“ philosophy, but here’s not that thing in question.

hqdefault.jpg


The noise ocures ONLY with guitars. Especialy the „first type“ of noise.
If I use microphone for example, and I record some voice, there is no noise in recordings. I do hear some noise (the „second type“ that comes from Direct Monitor knob) but I can live with that. Often just roll off that knob a bit and it’s all fine.
But with guitars (never mind if it’s a strat or LP), as soon as I touch the strings, there is noise again. I stop playng, the noise stops too.

So: I plug in the guitar - here’s the noise - I turn down Direct Monitor knob - the noise goes off – I touch the strings – here’s the noise again - I engage the noise gate (in Amplutube) - loose some signal - try to add some Gain, or turn Master - the noise comes back..and so on an on, and I NEVER had the chance to hear ONLY clean guitar strings.

505Q0Vz9ilqSTe5FQl6.jpg


Now..after years of struggle with all that, I’ve decided to do something about it and to get some new audio-interface, or maybe DI Box?

My question is: is it possible that guitar signal is too loud (strong?) for M-Audo, or it’s to weak? (My guess is that is too weak, since the Gain knob never goes red, I don’t know )

I’ve seen some videos about DI Box, but I’m not really sure what that thing does (my english is not so good for all those technical terms), so if it’ll solve that noise problem, maybe I wont have to buy new audio-interface ?

Or is it that M-Audio ProKeys Sono 61 is outdated thing, and that new audio-interfaces are just better in handling signals that comes from electric guitars..?
looking forward for your answers, I’m 50 years old and don’t want to mess around with gear much, so any simple advice-solution would be great.
Thank you and sorry if my post is too long

Cheers!
 
85 views and no answers..:confused:

maybe I should put it more simple:

Whenever I touch strings I hear the noise (Amplitube)
When I don't touch strings, the noise is gone.

I've tweaked all trash, attack and release knobs and nothing.

What can it be?
 
Possibly a lack of or poor grounding through the equipment. Is the keyboard being only USB powered and nothing else connected except the guitar and/or mic?
 
What you describe is the opposite of what we usually hear with guitars, single coils especially, i.e., usually it gets quieter when you touch the strings, not louder. But, is there any chance you could post a short clip of the noise, so we have an idea of what you're hearing?

Does the noise occur whether you are using the AC adapter for the M-Audio, or if you just have the interface running on bus power?

I assume you've tried different guitar cables?

Do you have a second computer, or a battery powered laptop, even better, to test your M-Audio with to see if it is some kind of power/ground issue with the computer?

A DI might be worth a try, especially if you can borrow one. Then you'd go into the microphone input, so that would limit your ability to record guitar and vocal at the same time, but it would at least answer the question. Getting one with a ground lift switch might be useful to see if that makes a difference as well when testing.
 
Noise by Gillette Wilkinson | Free Listening on SoundCloud

Here's the sound.
Thank you so much for finding time to look at this topic.
And to answer, yes - I have tried different cables, positions etc..
M-Audio is only USB powered. It has an input for 9V DC, but there is no any cable plugged in it.
It has some IO switch (which I don't have idea what is for, but that switch is moved ti I)

Thank you again
 
+1.
Also electric guitar pick ups are excellent RF receivers so if u are playing anywhere near a computer fan, most moniters, external current eaters of any kind , you are generally going to get noise. try a long guitar cable and play at least 6- feet away from electrical stuff. I have also found some usb interfaces require an external powered bus to properly bias internal preamps to work cleanly. you may ultimately be better off upgrading to a dedicated I/o interface
 
From that clip Gillette I cannot find any noise, can we have a clip of JUST the noise? You seem to have a noise floor of around 75dBFS and that is very good for guitar.

However, two things to check. From the spec of the M-Audio it seems it is a 16bit, 2 channel USB device. These rely on Windows 'generic' drivers and so record level system gain needs to be set in Windows Sounds and Devices. Default is 100%, you probably want it at 5% (yup FIVE not a typo).

Are you using a laptop? If so I think you need to earth(ground) the audio metalwork somehow*. If using a tower PC then check the continuity of the case earth TO a good earth.

*N very B! I assume you live in a country with a 'civilized' mains supply? E.g. USA or EU? Some places in the world have 'earth free, floating mains' and in such a case you MUST NOT earth any of your equipment.

Dave.
,
 
Whenever I touch strings I hear the noise (Amplitube)
When I don't touch strings, the noise is gone.
Click to expand...
- If you touch the jack plate on the guitar do you hear the noise? (From your Soundcloud pic the guitar is a Strat(?) )
- Touch the jack plate and the strings at the same time. Do you get noise or a change in the way it sounds?
- If you don't get the noise touching the jack plate or it changes when touching both read this..... Bridge Ground and Mystery Ground Issues — Haze Guitars

The guitar is supposedly grounded through its cable, through the 'interface', through the computers USB, and hopefully back to the ground of the AC outlet. From my own experience some grounding through the USB of computers sometimes isn't too good and sometimes is noisy.
Assuming you have a guitar amp, connect an instrument cord from one of the outputs of the keyboard to the input of the amp, but don't turn up the gain on the amp. The idea of this is to simply provide a ground from the keyboard through the amp via the instrument cable and the amps power cord, back to an AC outlet possibly better than through the computer. No guarantees it will help, but can't hurt to try. An 'alternate' ground like this has helped me occasionally.
 
ecc83 said:
From that clip Gillette I cannot find any noise....
Click to expand...
Hmm. I hear a distinct ringing. It almost sounds physical, but given that it's an electric guitar into the interface I'll assume it's some kind of distortion in the circuit.

Well, I suggest a new interface, or at least try one if you can, since you've ruled out the guitar and cabling as a source.
 
keith.rogers said:
Hmm. I hear a distinct ringing. It almost sounds physical, but given that it's an electric guitar into the interface I'll assume it's some kind of distortion in the circuit.

Well, I suggest a new interface, or at least try one if you can, since you've ruled out the guitar and cabling as a source.
Click to expand...

Not surprised 'I' can't hear any ringing Keith! RightMark analyser is MY best friend! Butty but. Weird tone spikes are a common artefact of the generic Win driver (I had one at 6kHz using my ZED10 but setting W7 'gain' to 5% pushed it into the noise floor. NB. New zeds are 24 bits and LURVLY!).

A silent recording would be most helpful. Posted as a 10 sec top quality MP3 (GRRR!) attachment would be even better!

Dave.
 
Gtoboy said:
+1.
Also electric guitar pick ups are excellent RF receivers so if u are playing anywhere near a computer fan, most moniters, external current eaters of any kind , you are generally going to get noise. try a long guitar cable and play at least 6- feet away from electrical stuff. I have also found some usb interfaces require an external powered bus to properly bias internal preamps to work cleanly. you may ultimately be better off upgrading to a dedicated I/o interface
Click to expand...

Thank you Gtoboy, it seems that the new interface is needed.
Someone told me that many vst's are supposed to work at 24Bit, and this M-Audio has 16Bit.
So I'll start looking for some decent I/O with midi inputs (because this M-Audio is great for midi)
 
ecc83 said:
From that clip Gillette I cannot find any noise, can we have a clip of JUST the noise? You seem to have a noise floor of around 75dBFS and that is very good for guitar.

However, two things to check. From the spec of the M-Audio it seems it is a 16bit, 2 channel USB device. These rely on Windows 'generic' drivers and so record level system gain needs to be set in Windows Sounds and Devices. Default is 100%, you probably want it at 5% (yup FIVE not a typo).

Are you using a laptop? If so I think you need to earth(ground) the audio metalwork somehow*. If using a tower PC then check the continuity of the case earth TO a good earth.

*N very B! I assume you live in a country with a 'civilized' mains supply? E.g. USA or EU? Some places in the world have 'earth free, floating mains' and in such a case you MUST NOT earth any of your equipment.

Dave.
,
Click to expand...

ecc83, I don't know..there are different kinds of noise. This one isn't the "zzzzz" or "mmm" noise :)

You can hear it at the very end of the sample I've posted, ant it's more like "shsh" noise.
As for Windows drivers, that is probably true, but when I've had all thos virtual amps installed, the main recommendation was to instal Asio4All drivers, because of latency thing, so I did.
Yes, main supply is ok. Thanks !
 
arcaxis said:
- If you touch the jack plate on the guitar do you hear the noise? (From your Soundcloud pic the guitar is a Strat(?) )
- Touch the jack plate and the strings at the same time. Do you get noise or a change in the way it sounds?
- If you don't get the noise touching the jack plate or it changes when touching both read this..... Bridge Ground and Mystery Ground Issues — Haze Guitars

The guitar is supposedly grounded through its cable, through the 'interface', through the computers USB, and hopefully back to the ground of the AC outlet. From my own experience some grounding through the USB of computers sometimes isn't too good and sometimes is noisy.
Assuming you have a guitar amp, connect an instrument cord from one of the outputs of the keyboard to the input of the amp, but don't turn up the gain on the amp. The idea of this is to simply provide a ground from the keyboard through the amp via the instrument cable and the amps power cord, back to an AC outlet possibly better than through the computer. No guarantees it will help, but can't hurt to try. An 'alternate' ground like this has helped me occasionally.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've checked all that gutar metal stuff and it's ok.
I don't have noise problems with regular amp. Little bit of strat's well known hum here and there, but I move around, find good position and I'm good to go.
I'm not sure about that "alternate" ground, because there is just one instrument cable that's plugged into M-Audio, so if I connect it to the amp I wont have another instrument input free to connect the guitar. Thank you for your reply !
 
keith.rogers said:
Hmm. I hear a distinct ringing. It almost sounds physical, but given that it's an electric guitar into the interface I'll assume it's some kind of distortion in the circuit.

Well, I suggest a new interface, or at least try one if you can, since you've ruled out the guitar and cabling as a source.
Click to expand...

Thank you Keith, I'll check out some interfaces, as I saw by now, they are all pretty good for guitar/voice recordings..a fiew knobs less or more here and there, but it seems that they all work fine..
 
"Someone told me that many vst's are supposed to work at 24Bit, and this M-Audio has 16Bit.
So I'll start looking for some decent I/O with midi inputs (because this M-Audio is great for midi) "

VSTI's are in software G so whatever 'bits' they are they will be triggered by the MIDI data. Whilst looking at interfaces do check carefully for good reports regarding low latency. Every AI maker claims 'Ultra Low Latency' but independent workers in the field have exposed many a porkie!

One interface that definitely has low latency and very good, stable drivers is the Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6. For under £200 there was little to touch it for some time but there are some 'generation ll' AIs around now that COULD be as good. Caveat Emptor!

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
"Someone told me that many vst's are supposed to work at 24Bit, and this M-Audio has 16Bit.
So I'll start looking for some decent I/O with midi inputs (because this M-Audio is great for midi) "

VSTI's are in software G so whatever 'bits' they are they will be triggered by the MIDI data. Whilst looking at interfaces do check carefully for good reports regarding low latency. Every AI maker claims 'Ultra Low Latency' but independent workers in the field have exposed many a porkie!

One interface that definitely has low latency and very good, stable drivers is the Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6. For under £200 there was little to touch it for some time but there are some 'generation ll' AIs around now that COULD be as good. Caveat Emptor!

Dave.
Click to expand...

Yes, caveat emptor, there is some research to be done, although I've already found some drivers issues with NI. At the other hand, people often don't know how to properly install the software so "drivers issues" are to be expected with any similar device I assume.. Whichever device that I get, I suppose that it is recommended to uninstall all the M-audio drivers before that?

Thank you Dave
 
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