Film/video scoring newbie/wannabe

AlChuck

AlChuck

Well-known member
Wow, it's hard to know what't the most sensible place to post this... but the description for this tributary had SMPTE in it, so what the hell...

I am currently enrolled in a class in film and video scoring at the local community college, and I'm interested in being able to do at least some level of work at home. I already have a powerful PC and digital audio system... I need a SMPTE converter and a VCR. My questions are:

(1) Anyone have any tips or recommendations for SMPTE? I was thinking of either getting a Midiman BiPort 2x4/s or a Midisport 8x8/s USB rack-mount MIDI interface.

(2) My understanding is that if I have a hi-fi VCR, I can pull the SMPTE off the normal audio track while the video's sound is in Hi-Fi mingled with the video. SO if I get a pre-striped tape and almost any $100-ish hi-fi VCR, I should be able to synch to the SMPTE on it, no? And if I want to be able to stripe a VHS tape with SMPTE myself, I'll need a VCR that allows audio dubbing? Somewhat more expensive...

(3) Anyone know of a forum similar to this one that's geared towards audio_video work?

Thanks...

-AlChuck
 
AlChuck, can't your professor(s) at the school answer this one for you? If they can't, what the hell good are they?
 
In California,

local community college = extension of high school

Usually.

There are some exceptions.


BTW, there used to be a film scoring board at www.northernsounds.com but it disappeared. Maybe you can ask them on their general board.
 
It should be an extension of high school. The problem all too often is that there's nothing to extend; the students are simply not ready to be extended. In California, it seems sometimes that Community College becomes What High School Should Have Been. But I think that's more of a reflection on high school and before, not on the community college system.

I've been very happy with most of my experiences at several two-year institutions in California over the years. Often the teachers are excellent and manage to do a great job when they can really teach and not have to spend too much energy energy teaching people basic things they already should know.

Good point, though, tdukex... I'll ask the teacher if she knows.
 
Why oh why would you want to enter a world of troubles by resorting to outside sync from a crappy VHS?

First of all, the normal track of the VHS depends on how well the audio heads are adjusted. You can imagine that no device will stay in sync to a SMPTE stream that comes from a source that flutters and distorts and god knows what else. So, from the beginning you need to look at a good VCR that can deliver proper performance.

Secondly, how do you propose to shuffle back and forth through the video project? If you use the VCR as a control master, then you'll need to allow time for sync-up to the incoming SMPTE stream, and that assuming your software is capable of doing it from an arbitrary point.

So, since you mentioned you have a pretty good PC system, why not look into adding a capture card to it ( doesn't need to be anything special, Pinnacle DC10, generic DV card (if you can get a DV source), etc)? Probably your software will allow you to import AVIs and play in sync to the score you are trying to compose (Cubase certainly can do that, most of the other major ones do also).

Hope this helped.

Cheers,
Amyd
 
Hey Amyd, thanks for the reply! I thought this thread was going to wither and die without any real feedback...

As a matter of fact I do have a Firewire interface and a DV camera, so I can digitize videos. I am thinking about the wider world and the skills I might need to do this kind of stuff. I suspect that using videotape dubs striped with SMPTE is still in common use. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that I'd need to know how to do this to have any chance of doing any kind of work in this area...

What do you think?
 
Well, if you insist in having SMPTE TC from a VHS, the Midisport 8x8/s seems like the better choice (because of the regeneration of TC it says it does), altough I honestly haven't used either of the two devices mentioned by you.

But think carefully about what I have told you: how do you plan to move through the audio project? If you use the VHS as master, then your only control will be to shuttle with the VCR, and you will find that annoying to say the least.

In the few studios I have seen that still use tape-based machines for audio-for-video playback, they are usually slaved to the computer, through a 9pin interface (RS-422). But a $100 VCR won't have that option obviously.

In the uncommon case that we get a SMPTE LTCed VHS (or Beta SP, etc) to use as sync source at my studio, we usually do the following: capture the whole video in the computer, then check on the VCR for the TC at the sync mark (countdown leader, SMPTE leader, etc - depending on which field (film, video post) you work, the sync image will vary), put the video file in the video track of our DAW, and then change the TC at the sync mark in the DAW to whatever was on the tape. That way we don't have to use the VCR for playback, we can shuttle through the project without problems and we maintain the frame-sync relationship to the VHS tape.

Dunno about the wider world as in US of A, since I am on other continents, but in the experience I had so far (which, mind you, is not very extensive) people have switched to dealing with OMF files for wide compatibility.

Well, hope I made myself a bit more clear.

Cheers,
Amyd
 
Sounds sensible... maybe I shouldn't worry about it. But I need to get a second VCR to use to make copies of my rendered DV to VHS tape so I don't have to root around behind the regular one in the living room or disconnect it, carry it into the studio, then bring it back when I'm done, working carefully around the rest of the family's viewing/taping needs. So I might as well get one with audio dubbing capability just in case... seems that JVC has a model for closer to $200...

Thanks for the feedback...

-AlChuck
 
Heh....... don't bother looking for a VCR that will be able to handle CTL track or LTC that costs around 100 cause I doubt U will find one. If you want to redo all this stuff get a capture card for your PC it will be LOT cheaper than a analoge editing system and easier in the end.

and normal VHS doesn't use time code(LTC) anyways, most use CTL track, which sucks to sum it up(not as accurate as LTC)......... so U would also need buy a time code generator if U wanted timecode....... which is just another reason to get the capture card.

Sabith
 
Well, yeah, the MIDISPORT 8x8s generates SMPTE, but I was more expecting to be getting striped tapes... gee, here I am talking like this is actually anything more than a naiive pipe dream of mine anyway... just looking for a potential outlet for my musical creativity.
 
Man, don't give up on your dream just cause of some silly SMPTE mumbo-jumbo. Nothing is unsolvable, with a bit of an effort and a big hammer. :D

And to answer a part of your original question I had forgotten to answer, maybe you would care to stop by www.recording.org. They have there a forum for "sound for movies", and while atm it's not very active, there are some pretty heavyweight names participating in the forum (including re-recording mixers, film music composers, etc), so you might want to give it a try.

Amyd
 
Thanks for the encouragement, Amyd. It's not the SMPTE stuff that makes me quail. If it was only a matter of technical issues it would be great... it's just that I have a family, and a day jobthat supports them, and unless there was some way to stake us for a year or so, I will never be able to devote more than a piddly amount of time to music for film... I just don't think there's much chance of going very far with it under such conditions.

But hey, we'll see... I'll get through this class, and my next step in my "plan" was to approach the film department at SFSU and talk to some professors and see if it would be possible to offer my services for some student projects, so I can get some practical experience. I can afford to offer it for free so long as I can make the time thing work; I thought a short film might be the way to go to get a taste of it. Once I got through that, I could take a look at what I feel about it all and maybe try to sell my services... like I said, it's all pretty half-baked and a bit naiive.
 
Hey AlChuck, I know this thread is long dead, but it has been 6+ months since you last posted on this, I am curious to find out how far you have pursued this and where you are now re: music for film...
I am setting up my system to do this and I'd like to pick your brain on a few issues.

Brad
 
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