Electric Vs. Acoustic drums.

Electric Vs Acoustic Drums.


  • Total voters
    91
Hi all ... first post. Please be gentle.

I'm not a drummer, so take that into account. But I've been around music for a long time -- and drummers for a long time -- so I do have a good feel for what is realistic on the drums and what is not. I'm also not a professional engineer, and I don't have tons of money to pay one.

That being said ... until recently, I was all about acoustic drums. Since I don't play, I would buy tons of audio loops. Of course, that leads to a whole set of problems, mostly dealing with how they were recorded and what has been done to them.

A lot of people tried for a long time to get me to switch to MIDI drums, but I resisted because it just wasn't realistic enough. But I decided to give it a try about a year ago, buying EZ Drummer from Toontrack. The flexibility was nice, and the samples were good, but not quite there.

Then I got turned on to the upgrade ... Superior Drummer 2.0. And I have to tell you, it's absolutely KILLIN'.

My Christian band just led worship as guest band at another church. The home church uses e-drums, and they're old and crappy. The triggers are just about shot, and the sounds are really bad. So we decided to bring a spare kit, just a little Roland TD-4, and we hooked them up to my Mac running Superior ... Firepod to the board via stereo outs.

The sound was absolutely beyond belief. Even the cymbals. We heard so many comments from the congregation about how good the drums sounded. Of course, they were used to crap, but still.

All stock samples for Superior are recorded at Avatar Studios in upstate New York. There's a "how they made it" video at Toontrack.com that shows all they went through to capture this stuff. Really interesting, and I think you'd be surprised at the level of detail. All the MIDI loops that come packaged with it are recorded by Nir Z, which is no slouch. And the software is phenomenal. Full mixing capabilities, plug-in effects (if you want them), separate control over each mic, ability to build "virtual drums," on and on. You can switch pieces in the kit, edit velocity curves, plus a bunch of other stuff I can't quite get my arms around yet.

The sound is so good that I'm going to do my next CD project with a Roland TD-20 triggering Superior.

By the way, when I make demos, I only use professionally recorded MIDI loops. I try to edit as little as possible for the very reason that I'm NOT a drummer and I don't want to make anything sound unrealistic. If I DO edit things, I always consult my drummer buddy to make sure I'm not doing something stupid. I've started collecting loops and probably have 25,000 of them now. Of course, for a non-drummer, it's never enough.

Oh yeah ... Superior retails for $349, but you can typically find it for less. My wife actually got it for me for Christmas, on sale for $99.

Anyway, that's my 2¢. Thanks for listening.
 
Is it really an either/or choice?? Surely it's horses for courses? I really wonder why there are so many fundamentalists on this forum.

If I'm making a rock record with a great drummer who always plays acoustic drums and I have a great kit, new heads, tuned and good to go in a great sounding space with good mics available then I'm going to go acoustic.

If a lot of those things are missing I'll try electronic - or trigger stuff using drumagog. If the drummer sucks then some repairs can be carried out by editing the midi data. If the drums or room suck I'll use some quality drum samples.

If I'm doing a twisted electronica track I'll probably just go electronic kit triggering synthesised sounds.

If I were a drummer living in a small apartment I'd get a cheapish electronic kit for practice and home recording demos and get as much time on acoustic kits as possible.

Try both. In my experience it is pretty hard to make electronic drums sound natural so if you want to sound like John Bonham find a great sounding room, really learn to tune your drums, and experiment with mic placement.
 
Is it really an either/or choice?? Surely it's horses for courses? I really wonder why there are so many fundamentalists on this forum.

Because different people have different preferences. Some hate a guitar recorded direct. Some love it. Some mix and match. We're all different.
 
Here's another angle:

I am primarily a guitar and bassist. I also am a solo home recordist, playing all instruments.

However, I love playing and recording drums. Great pleasure, and , I am the only session drummer I have!

When recording, I would NEVER consider playing my Strat through a digital emulation/pre amp modeler of a Black Face Fender because I have a real one, and I have learned how to take advantage of it's musical nuances AND record them.

In contrast, it is very difficult for me, alone, to CONSISTENTLY mic and track acoustic drums (IMO more difficult than guitar), and I am not a good enough drummer for it to matter in many cases.

I would love to have a set of old Ludwigs or Gretches mic'd and ready to go, but I can get my drum tracks down , by myself, with the Rolands, in about 1/10th of the time it would take otherwise.
 
Because different people have different preferences. Some hate a guitar recorded direct. Some love it. Some mix and match. We're all different.

Right, people have different preferences but all techniques are valid.

Shouldn't the recommendation take account of music type, budget and the particular situation?

Just cause you prefer a guitar amp to DI modeling doesn't mean someone making demos in a shoebox studio apartment should crank a Marshall stack.

A $200 acoustic drum kit is probably not going to sound that great recorded in the one room apartment with a 6.5 ft ceiling and Radio Shack mics with the family Labrador joining in on the chorus (it might, you never know).

With the technology available to us these days you can make amazing recordings in a variety of ways. I get tired of the Home Recording Ayatollahs on here telling people they MUST do it one way or another.

Let's face it sampled drums didn't hurt Nirvana's Nevermind and Jimmy Page and George Harrison have both made use of DI'd guitars.
 
When recording, I would NEVER consider playing my Strat through a digital emulation/pre amp modeler
The thing with great electric drums is that they are not modeled. They are honest recordings of real drums in the greatest rooms in the world. A snare sample is not just a stereo wav file of a mixed snare. It is individual unmixed tracks of every mic in the room including bleed through the tom mics etc. And you can do whatever you want with those room and bleed tracks.

The only way I can spot them in a recording:
A recording that is otherwise not professional with professional drums sticking out like a sore thumb.

or

A recording where the drum performance is nowhere near good enough to get the final "OK" from a real producer, yet it has sounds that can only come from a real producer.


But put electric drums in a professional recording with a professional drummer...I couldn't tell the difference unless I recognized the samples from somewhere else.

As was said several times before, the problem is that I can get 9000 different recording sounds out of a real drum kit. I can only get one sound out of a sample because it was already recorded.
 
Right, people have different preferences but all techniques are valid.

Shouldn't the recommendation take account of music type, budget and the particular situation?

Just cause you prefer a guitar amp to DI modeling doesn't mean someone making demos in a shoebox studio apartment should crank a Marshall stack.

A $200 acoustic drum kit is probably not going to sound that great recorded in the one room apartment with a 6.5 ft ceiling and Radio Shack mics with the family Labrador joining in on the chorus (it might, you never know).

With the technology available to us these days you can make amazing recordings in a variety of ways. I get tired of the Home Recording Ayatollahs on here telling people they MUST do it one way or another.

Let's face it sampled drums didn't hurt Nirvana's Nevermind and Jimmy Page and George Harrison have both made use of DI'd guitars.

Ayatollahs ?
Isn't that a little rough ? Wack started the thread by asking this;

Hi, I was wondering Which you guys preferred. Electric drums, or acoustic drums for recording? And Why? I'm Unsure to go with drum mics for my set, or an electric set for no distortion. I've mostly seen people with acoustic sets, I assumed it was for more real drum sound. I figured with an electric drum set i wouldn't have to worry about distortion/bass trapping. Which do you prefer?

Twice the OP asks which people prefer. And wants to know why. The OP wasn't asking for specific gear recommendations and if they were, you'd be within the bounds of that request to tell them exactly what you use and why. If you express the opinion that you wouldn't touch an acoustic set if someone paid you or an electric set if it fell from the heavens, you're simply expressing your opinion. Sometimes people can put things in a somewhat forceful way, I'll grant that, but every reader or seeker is free to ignore such. To be honest with you, I could not be less interested in Wack's music type, budget or situation because Wack is trying to decide between two specific directions and I must assume common sense there in weighing up whether it's possible to go either way. It would be kind of daft if the OP was seriously considering investing in a piece of kit that they couldn't even make use of..........Now, if they described their music, budget and living/recording situation, that's a different matter. One can't do someone elses thinking and living for them and Wack gave everyone in the universe (well, those registered at HR.com ! :)) carte blanche to say exactly why they choose electric or acoustic. I for one will not be invading sovereign territory should Wack choose electric ! :D
I take your point, however.
 
Neither. I can't stand either.

I'll duck now :o


Hey now Trent is an amazing musician! That put aside I thank you all for your Opinions on the subject. It is still a verry hard choice. I think what I will try doing is using an electric for tracking, acoustic for practice, and eventually experiment with drum micing, once again thank you all!:D
 
On Thursday and Friday, with my drummer, we're tracking some drums for some demo's for our band. We have the option of a full mic'd up acoustic kit or an electric kit. Even though we're doing it in a small bedroom I'm still opting for the acoustic kit. It's an awesome kit!

I don't know much about drums but I've engineered drums at live gigs before to get really good sounds so I'm looking forward to the challenge of recording them for the first time.
 
for me its software

I like both electronic and acoustic drums in my recordings but I dont play or have the want or need too, especially with being restricted by living in an apartment

Ive only be at this for less than a year but I am shocked how much I enjoy programming drums..I have Superior and "too many to name" electronic kits (much to my wifes chagrin) as well as hundreds of samples, an MPD 24 to lay tracks down with as well as a Zoom drum machine to jam with

sometimes i can just listen to Superior on its own over and over...its depth is amazing to a non drummer and i can achieve results i wouldn't stand a chance with on a real kit...it really is that good

Drums are inspirational as i can program them anywhere i can power up my laptop...I've just recorded my first Drum and Base loops today after getting a afro/cuban beat down whilst waiting to collect my passport earlier!


pity all my other musical abilities are shit..maybe i need to pick up my guitars more lol
 
Don't forget to double that mono bass track. I hear you can instantly turns it into a stereo track that way.:laughings::laughings::laughings:


watch it...just because old men like you cant keep up with modern producing techniques :p


i have two bass tracks :spank:


and three kicks :D
 
watch it...just because old men like you cant keep up with modern producing techniques :p


i have two bass tracks :spank:


and three kicks :D
Lol! Yeah, right....I'm ancient.:rolleyes:

Keep wasting channels. Clone the clones while you're at it. :laughings::laughings:
 
are you serious?

Um.....I'm not sure. About what????

About cloning the clones??? No, that would be almost as useless as cloning the track to begin with.

Or were you asking if I serious about needling you about the whole "Cloning" thing. Of course that's not serious....I'm just being obnoxious.:D
 
you do it so well..id rep you on the obnoxious thang but Ghosts got all my obnoxious Canadian rep points ;)
 
electric sets are really expensive i think you should use an acoustic set with triggers to prevent whatever distortion you are getting. but if it sounds fuzzy the mics are probably positioned wrong. Try different mics if you can, recently when my band was recording we miced an acoustic set. we had an old neuman condenser on the snare and it sounded awful, ringing too much and distorting. we replaced it with a cheap akg and used the neuman on the guitar amp. I wish you luck with your recordings:)
 
electric vs. acoustic, mac vs. pc, analog vs. digital...does it even matter? It all comes down to your ability and your taste. If your idea has strength, and you are honest with yourself, anything can sound great. Each instrument has their own character and they all requires good judgment which is rare but worthy of pursuit.
 
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