Electric Vs. Acoustic drums.

Electric Vs Acoustic Drums.


  • Total voters
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Unless you are (or have access to) a very good drummer, with the best mics and the best recording environment money can buy ..... you should do with either an electronic kit and / or midi programming.
I don't agree with a lot of this. Yes, you need a good drummer, but you also need a good drummer if you're using electronics, so that goes without saying either way. As far as mics and room...no...it doesn't have to be the "very best money can buy". I know many people that record in their garages and basements with "decent" mics and a little bit of room treatment and get pro sounding recordings. What makes electronics any cheaper??? Don't the good ones cost money, too???


Programming drums is in itself a bit of an skill (maybe even an art-form), but you'll learn quickly and nothing yields such easy, pro-sounding results for us 'real world' (skint) home recordists!
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Yes, SOME people (like 1 in 25) can program drums the way a drummer would play them and make then sound convincing. But most non-drummer "home recordists" don't even come close. So, I don't agree with "nothing yields such easy, pro-sounding results for us 'real world' (skint) home recordists!". I rarely hear pro-sounding results from home-recordists that have programmed and tweaked for weeks.

And since you keep mentioning "real world". In the real world, many real people have real drums and record with them. What makes recording drums something out of a "fantasy world" in your opinion? :D
 
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is like saying "sex or a wank?" really isn't it

Not if you've broken both legs or your back and your woman is willing........:D

Originally Posted by tigerflystudio ; Unless you are (or have access to) a very good drummer, with the best mics and the best recording environment money can buy (which, with respect, not many of us are / have, which is why we're on a 'Home-Recording' forum!) then I would say you should do with either an electronic kit and / or midi programming.

It's all well and good saying acoustic drums are best - undoubtedly, they are in a live situation! - but in the real world of the home-recordist, the simplest and most cost-effective way of getting good (pro sounding) drum tracks for your music, is to go electro.

There's a whole stack of pro's out there using MODERN electronic kits, triggers and software because of the time, money and effort saved. And seriously, the sound is nothing short of BRILLIANT these days. Every parameter and every bit of programming can be tweaked at any time, and HERE'S THE TRUTH: 99.9% of our audience will not know the difference. All they will love is the killer drum sound you've got.

Your tracks will be transformed for the better. Programming drums is in itself a bit of an skill (maybe even an art-form),



Alot of what the Tiger says is true, particularly the bit about the general public, not so much knowing the difference, but not really caring. It's also true that many many pros have gone over to the dark side {:D} although in most cases I'd say on a hunch that those that have gone electric have done so in cahoots with acoustic.
But it's simply not true that you need the best rooms or the best mics or a "very good drummer". How do you quantify that ? I mean, I've always considered myself fortunate coz all my recording life, I've had drummers {indeed, the reason I bought a drumkit in the first place was so that my drummer buds could drum} as friends. But I've not thought about how good or not they may be. If you can play with someone, sometimes you go with their limitations, same way they go with mine. Do most home recorders seriously not know any drummers ? Not even can they sometimes help out, I mean do most of us not actually know any ? Think on that one for a minute. :confused:

Many home recordists that track do so in the spaces they have available. I record drums certainly in my kids' bedroom. From the opinions that I read, their room is a disaster on every level imaginable, almost square, low ceiling, beds, wardrobes, toys, cupboards, big windows, aeroplanes flying by.......I have had great fun learning to mic the kit in the various different ways and I've had to be rather inventive. I like the sounds I can get. I don't have a fortune to spend on mics. I bought a couple of cheap sets {one by Behringer, one by Superlux} and in concert with a couple of condensers, close micing, interesting overhead placements and some "after the fact" naughtiness, I like the sounds I can get. They may be rubbish, but I like them ! I don't want to sound like those elitist double bassists from the 50s-early 70s who had such a downer on the bass guitar that they got all depressed and superior. It's not the same thing. I do actually like some of the electric sounds.
The point about programming like a drummer is a really good one and even some drummers can't program like drummers ! Because breaking playing octopus fashion down to individual elements is not easy.
Anyway, what do I know ?!
Wack, why not go for both ? You may find that you can have your cake and eat it !
 
Not necessarily. To continue with your sex analogy:

Acoustic drumkit = Missionary sex... or at best doggy style
Tripped out electronic crazefest = spicy, raunchy, far out fetish delight

:D

Which carries an immediate assumption that one is intrinsically better than the other....
In the UK, many a politician has 'expired' via the latter !! :eek: :o
 
Which carries an immediate assumption that one is intrinsically better than the other....
Not necessarily. But each has it's merits. Fetish spanky spanky (and other more extreme stuff) can be fun, sexy and even visually rather stimulating, yet might not be emotionally very satisfying, on the other hand, missionary sex with a woman you're crazy about can be a very uplifting lovemaking session.

In the UK, many a politician has 'expired' via the latter !! :eek: :o
I think my all time fave scandal was Max Mosley :D
 
Very informative posts guys, I see both are good/unique in their own ways... such a hard decision.
 
Hi again folks,

Each to their own, huh? If you're recording acoustic drums at home with mid to low end mics, then that's all good. Seriously, I did it myself for years and really enjoyed that process and learned a lot from it.

I then started using midi programmed drum with real cymbals tracked over the top (overdubbed) and got some great results there too. Now, though, I have fully shifted over to the 'darkside' because modern soundbanks and midi gives you control over pretty much everything - velocity, resonance, stick attack, timbre, pitch, reverb tails, room size / fx. It just surpasses the quality of what could achieve at home with my acoustic kit and mics.

And the fact that I can don a pair of headphones late at night and within a couple of hours have a fully completed backbeat for a song, well, that just works so much better for me. Alright I fine-tune the drum mix the following day through the studio monitors, but still, the groundwork can be mostly done late at night when external noise is an issue (for the family / neighbours).
 
Digital

I think you should go with mic'ing an acoustic set. Electronic drums are... ya know, electronic.

And an electric guitar is ... ya know, electronic :eek: Sorry 'bout that. Just yanking yer chain.

I agree. I love the sound of accoustic drums but due to lack of space I "have" to use digital drums. Granted, they do not sound like accoustic but they can be "tuned" to get the sound you like.
 
There may bit a bit of crass-talk here about 'electronic' drums. Acoustic drums recorded (well) sound like acoustic drums (no shit, Sherlock!), but electronic / digital / midi programmed drums triggering modern drum samples also sound like real acoustic drums.

Of course, when working with midi, you can choose just about any drums sounds you wish, from hip-hop to breakbeat etc., or you can stick with conventional drum kit sounds for rock, jazz blues etc.

In some dum programming, er, programs, you can even choose the type of wood from which the shells are made (which basically alters their tone). You can do other cool things like choose from hundreds of different 'real world' cymbals (i.e. Zildjian ZHT's, Meinl MCS's etc.), or maybe you want to deaden or brighten the room sound, move the mics about to get different sounds etc.

This will only apply to a few of you out there, but if you're even slightly considering moving into drum programming to achieve a better (pro) sound for your music, then you should definitely check out some of the software that's available these days - stuff like the BFD series, or Addictive Drums etc.
Why not? Chances are, your favourite bands are already using them!
 
Great topic!!!

I've been wrestling with this same question for quite some time. First off, I'm a temperamental old fogey who maintained for years that I'd never have anything to do with those "toy" drums.

Although it takes a lot of work and experimentation to get a good recorded drum sound, when it's right, there's no real competition from electronic kits. But miss by just a little bit here or there, or have a change in humidity, or a very inconsistent drummer and it can drive you batty trying to get a good sound.

I spent the last couple of months auditioning different edrum sets from cheapo ions up to top of the line Rolands and Yamahas, and was amazed by the variation in quality between the different sets and models. Hi hats and other cymbals seemed to be problem area.

Finally, last week I pulled the trigger on a Yamaha DTXpress IV Special set. Even though it uses rubber pads, to me it was the best sonically. The cymbal sounds are samples of very good cymbals, and on some of the preset kits I have to glance over and make sure I'm not actually playing a Zildjian K Custom Dark Ride. The hi hat is equally impressive. It uses a real hi hat stand, and has the full range from tightly closed through the various splashy sounds all the way to wide open.

I haven't recorded with it yet, but we used it for a rehearsal a couple of nights ago and I can tell you, our drummer has never sounded better!

I'm looking forward to recording both the audio and midi outputs from it and being able to quantize the timing and plug in different sounds at will during playback.

The modern generation of drum modules and triggers are a vastly improved over those of just a few years ago. To paraphrase an automobile commercial, "it's not your father's electronic drum set."
 
Great topic!!!

I've been wrestling with this same question for quite some time. First off, I'm a temperamental old fogey who maintained for years that I'd never have anything to do with those "toy" drums.

Although it takes a lot of work and experimentation to get a good recorded drum sound, when it's right, there's no real competition from electronic kits. But miss by just a little bit here or there, or have a change in humidity, or a very inconsistent drummer and it can drive you batty trying to get a good sound.

I spent the last couple of months auditioning different edrum sets from cheapo ions up to top of the line Rolands and Yamahas, and was amazed by the variation in quality between the different sets and models. Hi hats and other cymbals seemed to be problem area.

Finally, last week I pulled the trigger on a Yamaha DTXpress IV Special set. Even though it uses rubber pads, to me it was the best sonically. The cymbal sounds are samples of very good cymbals, and on some of the preset kits I have to glance over and make sure I'm not actually playing a Zildjian K Custom Dark Ride. The hi hat is equally impressive. It uses a real hi hat stand, and has the full range from tightly closed through the various splashy sounds all the way to wide open.

I haven't recorded with it yet, but we used it for a rehearsal a couple of nights ago and I can tell you, our drummer has never sounded better!

I'm looking forward to recording both the audio and midi outputs from it and being able to quantize the timing and plug in different sounds at will during playback.

The modern generation of drum modules and triggers are a vastly improved over those of just a few years ago. To paraphrase an automobile commercial, "it's not your father's electronic drum set."

Good post! Of course there is another side to this where it doesn't need to be an either/or proposition. You can have an acoustic kit and augment it with electronic drums for further sound sources, even triggering sample one-shots, special FX and incorporate it in the basic groove. It's done often enough.
 
Great thread. To be honest, I'm pretty biased toward using an acoustic kit, but I have lots of experience with electric kits too.

In an acoustic kit, there are so many nuances to each acoustic drum, it's absurd to think that an electronic device could take it all into effect. Maybe it can, but I think not.

In a band I play in, they provide a top-o-the-line Roland V-series kit for me to play, which at the time (3 years ago), was the cream of the crop. Playing that kit is a rush. It's an amazing kit. Being so, however, it could never replace my acoustic kit at home. I consider the two instruments as different as an acoustic guitar and an electric guitar. Are they the same instrument? Do they produce the same sound? Any sane person with ears would tell you they are not, and they do not.

In my experience, there really is no comparison between the two, playing, or recording. To illustrate the point, take Neil Peart. Watch one of his HQ solos, and listen to the subtle nuances in the tone of his snare drum. I may be out of touch, but I don't know of any electronic kit on earth which could reproduce that. Many try, but in my experience, they fall flat. Neil Peart on an acoustic kit would invariably sound 100% different than Neil Peart on an electric.

I realize this is an extreme. In this forum, not many are going to get to the recording or playing expertise to even notice the differences I am illustrating. Heaven knows I can't play or record to that level, or even close.

My point is this. Using an electric kit as an acoustic will only get you so far. Using an acoustic kit as an electric will only get you so far. Each has its own attributes and qualities which make it excel as a musical instrument.
 
In an acoustic kit, there are so many nuances to each acoustic drum, it's absurd to think that an electronic device could take it all into effect. Maybe it can, but I think not.
Well, if you try to get an electronic kit to pretend to be an acoustic, you are going to be disapointed. It may get close, but like you said, it can't match the nuances of a masterfully played acoustic kit. The same goes for electronic emulations of anything acoustic. When your premise is to imitate an acoustic instrument through electronic means, you are immediately putting the electronic instrument at a disadvantage, which in a way is an unfair proposition.

My point is this. Using an electric kit as an acoustic will only get you so far. Using an acoustic kit as an electric will only get you so far. Each has its own attributes and qualities which make it excel as a musical instrument.
Exactly. There are things you can do with electronic kits/instruments that are impossible with acoustic ones and vice versa. Use each for what they are, instead of forcing them to imitate something they are not. Then a whole new world will open up in front of you.
 
Generally speaking real drums, unless I want a drum machiney sound in which case I'll program drums.

I would never use electronic drums though, as that just seems like the worst of both worlds.

Your Mileage May Vary.
 
It's always been funny to me..
An Electric Guitar is pretty standard no matter what style of music (For The Most Part Anyway)

BUT, if your thinking about getting one of those Electronic Drumkits for your next Hard Rock album.. burn in the depths of hell for thinking it :-D

**Back To Seriousness**

I honestly have no problems with the drum sound samples.. ALOT of artists use them and snare and kick samples are very close to a standard in modern rock/metal.. I plan on using a hybrid kit real cymbals and electronic drums.. it just opens up alot of possibilities without having to have a 20, 22, 24, and 26 inch kick drum on site (same applies to toms).. besides the samples are sounding better and better all the time.

-Paul
 
cymbals are def. the weak link in elec. kits, a hybrid kit would be approaching indistinguishable from a real kit.
 
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